sauromantia

[Aezeal]

you say going ALL scales? No bless and no SC?

I must say I'm playing prod 1 now (order 3 mis 2) with dormant SC (and dead again atm)

I do have loads of prod now, I always seem to build them andophags but I wonder if I might be overdoing it on the prodscale now.

[Renojustin]

First, I just gotta gush that I enjoyed Baalz's guide a whole bunch. Therefore I'm skipping over some of the more obvious things that he brought to light, and concentrating a bit more on some subtleties, niceties, and details that may not be apparent from your first glance at Sauromatia. Somewhere in between I end up challenging some of his tenets. Oh, the humanity!

My credentials:

I have played Sauromatia twice, in Ascendant and Peccary, 15 and 8 players respectively, and imo I would have handily won Ascendant had the server not gone down at turn 45. It was my first game, a noob game, but I really dominated it, even with some what seemed to be well-skilled players - in part to a good starting position, in part to a trustworthy co-non-belligerent I met in the game, and in part to Sauromatia's strengths. I was fighting 5 and 6 nations at a time by the time Gandalf's server died.

I am leading going into turn 41 in Peccary in provinces, income, gem income, forts, research, and dominion, but by a lesser margin, because this was after getting attacked by 3 nations from turns 15 to 26... three nations that did not have any other enemies to worry about during that whole time except me, myself, and Gazebo.

Always first, ANDROPHAG ARCHERS:

The Androphag Archers are a fantastic unit for expansion and really hit their stride in early game defense. You can even make them a main strategy and recruit 40+ per turn for a long, long time, foregoing a Sloth scale just for them. They can also stop most of what other nations can throw at you in the dangerous early game, which means you don't have to have an awake pretender, something I will get into later. The usefulness of this strategy can be hampered by an unlucky random starting location with few resources.

Still, even with how nice they are, I usually don't find myself hiring many beyond turn 25 or so even with Order 3 and Sloth 3. Mostly this is because I spend a lot to improve my infrastructure and mage corps, but also because Oriopatias are strong units, and are sacred, saving you a lot of upkeep. You will always find a use for them, and they are very durable, especially if you have a good bless, whereas the archers can be easily countered by giants, flyers, poison-immunes, undead, enemy archers, or regenerating troops of any kind (sigh). Use your head as to which of these units you might want to use at any time, because you must bear in mind that they do not work well together at all.

Amazons: You should be recruiting mostly Amazon infantry from your alternate forts, if you have any gold that just needs spending.

Amazons are not a powerful unit by any means, and I find little use for them except as meat shields, but they have a good Attack with a spear (lending a good Repel capability) worthy Morale, reliable survivability, and generally Get The Job Done.

Cavalry: Most of your cavalry is just plain inferior to Androphags and Amazons... your foot archers are better at attacking and your infantry is better at defending on a gold for gold basis, and most of the time on a 1:1 basis. Unless you really NEED to deal Lance damage (once :/), and the need may definitely arise but doesn't seem to all that reliably, I would counsel to just stay away from these.

Hydras I do not use at all, except in the most niche of roles, being highly overpriced as well as slow and terribly unsynergistic with your excellent Androphags.

THE GORGON:

You MUST have a Gorgon pretender in my opinion, for SC value, for a very needed Earth bless, for Earth variety, and for pure goddamn terror factor. I use her sleeping, because the design points are highly valuable, because you just can't afford to lose her early, with Sauromatia's very weak priests, and because you are not vulnerable in early game. In the interim you can start ramping up to Construction-4 which definitely has got the goods she craves.

The highest Earth bless you can manage is vital for your high-encumbrance mage commanders but also adds nicely to their survivability and the strength of your Oriopatias. You are also going to want Nature 4, to keep your middling mage thugs out of affliction danger. Nature 4 is also necessary for Nature globals like Gift of Health and Mother Oak. A couple of points of Air rounds her out very nicely... a path that Sauromatia lacks completely, barring Delgnat the Sorceress hero (W2 A3 D4) and gives her access to the highly effective Mistform, as well as the devastating spells Cloud Trapeze and Rain of Stones. Resist Lightning is nothing to sneeze at either, with her high Protection, covering her main elemental vulnerability. Use Air Shield when you have the slightest doubt.

Use her aggressively, but use her wisely, because she's likely going to be your main deterrent as well as a very versatile and powerful aggressor. It is necessary to remember that she is awfully fragile in hostile dominion, which you will often be operating in.

Her gear should be an assortment of Construction 4 items. Luck Amulet and Magic Resistance Amulets are a mainstay of the SC profession and should never leave her possession. Hydra Armor saves her from having to cast Personal Regeneration, but use Rainbow Armor if you can possibly get it; the MR will save her against Astral nations. Boots of the Messenger is a wonderful piece of cheap gear to help her get her buffing in without crippling or at least disadvantageous Fatigue. A Vine Shield will save her life, and give her time to work against tougher opponents with her...

Snake Bladder Stick! Yes, this always-overlooked piece of crap will turn your Gorgon into a veritable titan of terror. Imagine the looks of complete non-horror on your opponents' faces as they scan this ghettofabulous accessory. Really, it's extremely synergistic with Fear, has a very large AOE for maximum damage, is the easiest thing in the world for you to craft, is thematic as anything, and is just plain ubergeek cool. A Horror Helment rounds out the head slot and your color scheme with a little electric purple. It also gives her a very respectable +10 Fear, which is just absolutely perfect for use with the Snake Bladder Stick.

At 50 design points, it pretty much goes without saying that she is bargain-basement dirt cheap. If you are fighting multiple nations at once, and you will likely have to after everyone reads this guide - ha! - you will live or die by your Gorgon.

COMMANDERS:

I've found that one weakness of Sauromatia is that contrary to popular opinion, their commanders actually make quite poor thugs until well into midgame and closer to late. The reason for this is that they are mounted. High Casting Encumbrance + no feet slot = high Fatigue, even with a good Earth bless, which you will have. Their Casting Encumbrance is 10. 10!! TEN!!11one!eleven

Some commander errata:
-Assassins have a very hard time against you.
-Your MR is sturdy.
-HPs are low to middling.
-High Defense with mediocre Protection.
-Extremely high Casting Encumbrance.
-Excellent buff paths with Nature and Water.
-All potentially poison-immune.
-Sabbath-capable.

Warrior Sorceresses: They are not quite as powerful as Baalz might have led you to believe, but they are still gorgeous units. Also it's a lot of fun to say Sorceresses. Every one of your Death random WSes will be going into research, and every one of your Blood-random WSes will be going into Blood Hunting.

The Nature-random and Water-random Warrior Sorceresses will be your ubuiquitous thugs; tough, hard to hit, and highly resistant to elemental damage. They can all cast Resist Poison, and should always do so when used in conjunction with Androphag Archers. This also opens up the Snake Bladder Stick for use with your rank-and-file. Any enemy army that is not poison IMMUNE is in for a horrifying, emasculating fight. Water randoms can also bust out Foul Vapors, which is the weakest of the damaging battlefield enchantments, but is easy to research and highly useful when used in conjunction with skellyspam.

Witch Kings: Use these bad boys for demoralizing forum stories as they perform all kinds of naughtiness and depraved acts on your defeated foe, and also for picking up chicks.

But really, they are more or less pure skellyspammers until just before late game when you are facing other Thugs and SCs, and have the gear and magic to turn them into soul-sucking monstrosities through a combination of equipment, Sabbaths, and Independent mage Communions. Their early to midgame tactic is simple: vomit out as many skeletons as you can with them until they start to remind you of Nicole Richie at a Big Boy buffet.

Guard the B2 randoms with your everlasting eternal soul, because they are the key to your devastating Ritual Blood magic.

Enaries: should be recruited for about the first five or six turns in your capital, and again only when you have need of artillery close to the front lines. Being slow and vulnerable, they are best used as site searchers at first, afterwards switching to remote site searchers (they can all cast Death, Nature, and Astral finders) and item forgers.

For your Communions, you are going to want Map Move 2 Independent mages with a buff path apart from Astral. This means that you should make finding Amazon Sorceresses or Tribal Priests a priority. Blood allows you some leeway with Sabbaths, and you can rock out to Ozzy while you script your army and have a nice chuckle to yourself.

DIPLOMACY:

The thing about Sauromatia is that your expansion is going to be top notch with the archers, even with Sloth 3... and that causes people to gang up on you early. So it is not necessary to take your Gorgon awake, and that may even be a detriment in the long run.

You are not a Mictlan, or Neifelheim, or Helheim, or even Abysia or Vanheim, and people will correctly not see you as a threat early on, unless you have an explosive early expansion. Use this to make a friend... or to skelly your way to the front door of your nearest neighbor.

PROVINCE DEFENSE:

You have a very powerful province defense. Every one of the units you get up to 20 PD has a composite bow. And after 20, you get LANCES. Your 1-20 PD horsebowmen in front have 15 defense and will stymie a wide range of melee attackers, while the rest lay down the composite law. You should buy a very good amount of Province Defense wherever applicable. It's also very prudent to do with the Misfortune-2 scale that you'll be taking... Sauromatia PD utterly annihilates Barbarians.

SCALES:

You don't need high Dominion, because you can Blood Sacrifice, and you are not making use of an immortal pretender. Nor are your units particularly vulnerable to having bad morale. Nor will you be using a (non-commander) bless strategy. Oriopatias are good, but they are far from the best, and are capital-only.

Order.

Sloth is easy to take, because you will have skellyspam armies, because your archers and sacreds don't take many resources, and because you need the points. The gold hit hurts a lot, but if you have any extra points, (you probably won't) spend them on --

Growth helps significantly with your blood hunting, and it lends itself to more strategies than Death. You can be defensive with Growth, and outlast brightly-burning bless nations. It's also a huge boon for your income elegantly combined with Order, and keeps you much safer from some deadly random events that you might otherwise be pummeled with with your Misfortune scales.

Heat is good with Blood, because most demons like it. It's also good because Neifelheim can give you a ton of trouble. Abysia will give you trouble regardless. The income hit is brutal, but you really have to get the points from somewhere, and this is usually it. You can safely go with Cold, as well, because your skeletons can usually keep Neifel giants at bay, and have much more trouble with Abysians. It's pretty much a preference. All other things being equal, balance this according to whether C'tis, Neifelheim, or Abysia is in the game... because C'tis can usually out-skellyspam you due to their lower Encumbrance.

Misfortune is synergistic with Order AND the Enaries' Fortune Telling, so I always take 2. In Ascendant I took Luck-1 which was very nice and all, getting some good boosts in gold, but more importantly, not getting any bad events in my capital or random attacks. If you're not unlucky early on with Misfortune though, you can power through it handily. And 120 points is a hell of a lot.

Magic is a toss-up. You can safely take Drain-2 if you find yourself needing the points, because Sauromatia has what is quite possibly the best Death magic in the game, allowing you to forge Skull Mentors. With the help of some Dwarven Hammers (yay for Gorgon Earth diversity), you should be making 2 per turn, blowing all your death gems. This is important and drastically powerful because it gives you the equivalent of 3 mage/forts worth of research, with no upkeep. If you take Magic-1, however, you will probably be ahead of any other nation in EA in research. But 120 points is a hell of a lot.

Which brings us to RESEARCH:

I always research Enchantment 3 first off with Sauromatia. Raise Skeletons will allow you to defend against basically anything in early game that your archers cannot. The sheer stopping and overwhelming power of 5 longdead skeletons per caster per turn is the true definition of relentless. With that safely in hand, you can be free to get Thaumaturgy-1 for Communions, and then Construction 4 for items.

Evocation is an important school for Sauromatia; Shadow Blast is devastating when used properly. Enaries are terrifying and accurate Shadow Blasters with Eagle Eyes, Communion, Eye of the Void, and a Spell Focus, all of which you will have very quickly and easily. Nether Darts can be powerful using this forumla as well. Storm of Thorns is a real pain to fight against; imagine how nice it would be in your arsenal instead!

Alteration is another mainstay of Sauromatia. Between the immensely useful and cheap Alteration 1 school, and the Soul Vortex and Darkness ride of the Witch Kings, there lies... SWARM.

Swarm will hold your opponents down for your Androphag archers. Swarm will kill poorly-placed enemy commanders. Swarm will harry and kill 95% of assassins. Swarm will hold enemies back from their fortification's bottleneck during fort storming. Swarm will terrify and confuse your enemies, make them waste valuable rounds of archery, and in general make them a very miserable and frustrated enemy. You can easily mass 10 N1 casters, all of your mages have it, for a vast metaswarm that the opposing army just - can't - get - past.

When using Swarm, it's best to have your archers set to fire against anything except Closest, because otherwise they will die in droves, and their little screams will haunt your dreams for weeks.

Conjuration-3 is worth it simply for Summon Earthpower on your Gorgon, and Thaumaturgy-2 is necessary for remote site searching. You are going to be using a LOT of gems.

You can successfully compete for artifacts with a Magic scale, and Sauromatia should be spending almost all their free gold on independent mages for magic diversity, which Construction-6 boosts tremendously.

Without magic diversity, Sauromatia is much, much weaker. Air alone will get you Wind Guide and Arrow Fend. I took A4 on my Gorgon in Peccary, and have not regretted it, because it is the key to Air boosters.

A single Fire-2 caster with your archers makes them into a magical missile juggernaut. It will also allow you access to Fire Resistance items if your thugs are going to face Abysia.

Earth is essential, if only for Dwarven Hammers, which you NEED to allay your ravenous gem expenditure. Earth has some of the most useful and powerful battlefield spells in my opinion.

Finally, a W2 mage gives you access to W4 with Robes of the Sea; otherwise you are stuck at W2 with Water Bracelets.

EARLY ENDGAME AND OTHER STRATEGIES:

Blood and Death, oh my. Hit the enemy capitals hard with Blood and Death. Rain of Toads can completely shut down enemy capitals by turn 40. It takes that long because you have to empower a Witch King to get to B3 in order to build Armor of Thorns for the rest of your Blood-random Witch Kings.

The more Blood you use to summon, the better your upkeep and the more powerful your armies. Imps are actually nice, solid units, and dropping them on top of enemy PD is one of the best remote summons in the game for the research needed, though it is expensive in Blood Slaves and booster items. But honestly, what else are you going to do with near-mindless virgins?

One efficient tactic you can use very early is to summon Dark Servants and equip them with a Bane Venom Charm, then send them to enemy capitals. They can also be used to damage large armies if you sneak into their path.

There are so many and varied tactics you can use with a great degree of success with Sauromatia, that unless you make up your mind like Baalz once iterated, you can be overwhelmed and spill your seed uselessly on the field of battle. This is a VERY REAL danger and disadvantage. Concentrate on a bright pinpoint of tactical options and you will be much the better for it.

In conclusion, this incaration of Sauromatia is the most powerful and fun nation setup I have ever used in Dominions 3.

Sauromatia

Dominion 5

Order 3
Sloth 3
Heat/Cold 2
Growth 1
Misfortune 2
Magic 1

Gazebo the Gorgon: E10, N4, A4

It may be worth noting that this pretender build has exactly 0 points left over.

[Epaminondas]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Ah yes, my dirty little secret is I actually haven't recruited a single hydra as Sauromatia due to the aforementioned wealth of options, but I can certainly see a situation where they'd be exactly what you'd want. I will say that you haven't convinced me that they wouldn't be quite effective for the role I suggested though - kamikaze poison bombs to soften up large enemy armies for major confrontations. Particularly since they're practically resource free you can throw them in at the last minute if something nasty threatens your capital. If you're facing a large army, from lets say a dual blessed Vanheim, placing 3 hydras spread out on the front row will have them die to be sure, before you've even got to worry about friendly fire most likely. Now those Vans have used up their first strike though and are poisoned (does this cancel the glamour? I don't remember) and the clock is ticking as they now contemplate your most excellent PD, and behind that your real forces which consist of more than just androphag archers (who are very hard to target because all your PD is archers). The enemy is drastically weakened before they even engage your army - you practically only need skellispam to tie up those super elite enemy troops and give the poison (which the androphag arches continue to pile on) time to work.

WRT the sacreds, I agree with you that though you could hang an effective strategy around your sacred cavalry other nations do that better. To my mind though the sacred cavalry is just a very big bonus to the real reason you'd go dual bless - warrior sorceresses.

This isn't specifically responding to you alone, but aren't Hydras a bit too expensive for kamikaze roles? I suppose I tend to play heavy-bless , low Order games, so g250 per unit seems too much for a throw-away unit.

So I tend not to use Hydras at all. Too expensive for niche roles, and too risky to integrate them with the rest of the Sauromantia military machine.

I also think it makes more sense for C'tis to have Hydras--given the innate poison resistance for C'tis--but then I suppose that would make the C'tis over-powered? And I suppose it also makes more sense for the Hydras to be units for a nation grounded in the Greek mythos, and Sauromantia is based on Herodotus.

[Kristoffer O]

Actually the hydra was the first monster made in the game (I like hydras). It was to be the Pythian monster. Every nation (about 5 at the time) was supposed to have one. Arcoscephale has the elephant. Then it ended Monsters became summonables, but the hydra remained a recruitable for unknown reasions.

Sauromatian backwardly inherited the hydra from Pythium when it was made the predecessor of Pythium.

[Baalz]

Hydras most certainly have a niche role. 250 gold is a lot if you plan on losing them while raiding PD, but 500 gold might be a cheap price to pay for major confrontations if it, say completely blunts 2000 gold worth of elephants, or holds a large uber sacred force for an extra couple critical turn (not unreasonable if combined with skellispam) while the poison damage mounts up. The gold cost is particularly relative when you consider that its not uncommon to be resource constrained as a nasty army is threatening your capital and you need to recruit troops fast.

Of course, as I mentioned I don't generally use them too much with Sauromatia, but I can certainly imagine situations where I would.

[K]

Hydras can be brutal if combined with spammed undead. The Poison Cloud aura doesn't hurt the undead, and they hold off attackers long enough that they get poisoned for several turns and soon die.

Marble Warriors are also ideal with Hydra support.

[BigDaddy]

I read the baalz part on the first page... Baalz, Baalz, Baalz... What were you thinking. I couldn't even finish reading your guide. They use hydras and should take heat scales at least a little unless they are absolutely maxing out gold (which, of course, can be quite useful).

Not that I've ever had a problem with hydras passing out, but, on the other hand, I always take the easily justifiable 40 points!

Unless you're 2player vs. Abysia (or similar matchup) I wouldn't take cold. Hydras should come in behind other stuff... the stuff will die, of course, but will keep teh hyrdas alive longer. Just a little Hydra guide... You can even have them retreat then (via commander retreat).

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by BigDaddy

I read the baalz part on the first page... Baalz, Baalz, Baalz... What were you thinking. I couldn't even finish reading your guide. They use hydras and should take heat scales at least a little unless they are absolutely maxing out gold (which, of course, can be quite useful).

Not that I've ever had a problem with hydras passing out, but, on the other hand, I always take the easily justifiable 40 points!

Unless you're 2player vs. Abysia (or similar matchup) I wouldn't take cold.

...

Hydrae are awful. At 250 gold nonsacred, every one is worse than buying another witch king in terms of upkeep, and give you a lot less value for that gold. I would never buy a hydra unless I was planning on getting it killed in a turn or two.

Androphag archers and cavalry are the worthwhile troop choices for building an army.

[BigDaddy]

You can use crossbreeds in large enough numbers to "cast" poison cloud on large armies, especially useful for merely defending unimportant provinces.

Squirrellord: As much as I respect that opinion, dragging a players large army through a poison cloud as the chase down retreating crossbreeds is very cheap, often even if you lose the hydras. =BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOSE THE HYDRAS!=

The small ones are more useful and harder to target.

I was always disappointed by them too, but I found something specific they worked against... Abysia?

[Trumanator]

Hydras are good against Eles and SCs, possibly some sacreds. You build them as a counter, not as a general unit.