Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 ! - Page 5

Marek_Tucan · #41 November 7th, 2007, 01:44 AM

I mean "secondary" as "not main" - IE say local roads etc. At least here many paved roads don't deserve to have "paved" status in SP as well

Large holes etc.

PlasmaKrab · #42 November 7th, 2007, 05:08 AM

What would have been interesting (but for this one I'm pretty sure it's a pipe dream) is an inputable value of, say, "road width".
After all a hex is still around 50m, so there's no way of telling if that road that runs in the middle of it is 5 or 30m wide. I think I'm not the only one to have run into the problem of stacking several "paved roads" to figure highways, while a real highway is generally under 50m wide.
IMHO the ideal solution would have been to set a "lane number" value or something similar when laying down a road, which in turn changes the number of vehicles that can be stacked in one road hex, the max load the road can take, and how fast damage hampers circulation.
Not sure there's any interest in it, but pretty sure it isn't doable.

DRG · #43 November 7th, 2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Marcello said:

Quote:

Marek_Tucan said:
Or change the wooden bridges and dirt roads to "secondary" (bridges and roads)?

I don't get what you mean by "secondary". Personally I think that the current "dirt road" is fine:

Neither of you two guys have been paying attention to the game. There hasn't been a "dirt" road in WinSPMBT since it was released. It's been "secondary" road for years and that covers any non paved road. It's still shows the "dirt" road graphic for ease of showing the difference between them and paved roads.

Don

Marek_Tucan · #44 November 7th, 2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

DRG said:
Neither of you two guys have been paying attention to the game. There hasn't been a "dirt" road in WinSPMBT since it was released. It's been "secondary" road for years and that covers any non paved road. It's still shows the "dirt" road graphic for ease of showing the difference between them and paved roads.

Don

I admit I didn't care for the official game designation for some time as I used these structures in this sense from the beginning of my SP mapping (that is since old SP2)

Marcello · #45 November 8th, 2007, 04:47 PM

The debate was about the graphics, not game mechanics.
Therefore "dirt road" was between quotation marks, because it looks like a dirt road even if does not perform that purpose. Speaking of which as I said I think that the current one is fine.
I suppose that you could change it to something more greyish, to represent the most common gravel roads and the very run down "paved" roads Plasmakrab was speaking about. But that would not be my first concern.

Marcello · #46 November 8th, 2007, 05:06 PM

Personally if there is a terrain that I missed that was some sort of sand berms that could be laid like bocage hedgerows. That would be very useful for iraqi maps.
Next a SPWAW style wall.
I also used to miss some sort of concrete like terrain that could be used as pavement above the zero level, as well as for structures like dams and such. However I found out that grey sand was a decent enough surrogate.

RecruitMonty · #47 November 8th, 2007, 09:03 PM

Walls, I really miss walls. It's murder trying to find a decent surrogate for them. So I concur. Sand berms would be a neat addition too. Not too difficult to simulate though, are they?

Marcello · #48 November 9th, 2007, 05:39 AM

"Sand berms would be a neat addition too. Not too difficult to simulate though, are they?"

You can simulate them by using elevation of course. Thing is, most engineering berms aren't 50 meters wide. Plus some properties would be lacking.

Think to things like these.

http://www.thewideawakecafe.com/wp-c...ads/feat07.jpe

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/26864...30FDCFC4C15FBB

PlasmaKrab · #49 November 9th, 2007, 06:28 AM

As Marcello said, you can simulate large sand berms and similar by using terrain elevation. I generally go for this for fortified bases and the like. Real, urban-terrain walls are much harder to come by, as well as fences as a minor note. Ever tried to make a map of downtown Berlin pre-reunification?

Looks like you are mostly talking about lower human-scale berms here, right? Like ones used for low-level fortifications, e.g. around dug-in tanks?
If we consider infantry entrenchments, the game detail level is low enough you can assume that berms are implied in trenches and infantry caches, and that e.g. rough terrain is good enough for the rest.
Back to the point, the one place where I'd gladly see berms is indeed around buried tanks. Right now they get the same sandbag circle as crewed weapons, which I can understand from a game mechanics perspective, but if at all possible, I think some within-hex sand berms like these for dug-in vehicles would be nice eye candy. Replace sand with earth and you have the summer variant.

For the smaller stuff, I don't think you can expect that level of detail in 50m hexes, and the larger stuff (aircraft shelters and base defenses) can be dealt with using elevation.

Marcello · #50 November 9th, 2007, 06:50 AM

"Looks like you are mostly talking about lower human-scale berms here, right? Like ones used for low-level fortifications, e.g. around dug-in tanks?"

Mostly about the zillion of berms which are built in Iraq.
These do not typically include trenches and are used in a variety of places such as the national borders, to enclose coalition bases etc. Rough terrain does not block LOS nowhere nearly enough to be used in their place, they are much smaller than 50m and I guess they would offer some cover as defensive positions if needs be. I can do with elevation but as it has been said they would be a nice addition.

EDIT

They are also used as obstacles for vehicles (think car bombs but not only).Elevation does not stop 2WD vehicles in the game.