Poll: Is Clam Hording Too Good?

[Frostmourne27]

Can we keep the discussion to clams please. The balance of EA Rlyeh, although somewhat related to clams, is not the issue at hand. If EA Rlyeh is boosted overmuch by clams, and a clam nerf makes them useless, we can buff them in other areas.

[Valandil]

I have voted that clams are fine as is, although I lean towards caution in the areas of Very Late Game, Alteration Bonus, and Nexus, having too little experiance in large-scale no-holds-barred multiplayer. I play Patala, and can say that they have enough weaknesses (S1 on a 400something gold mage? AAH!) in any case. Given the difficulty of forging them, I believe that Clams are NOT overpowered.

[Warhammer]

I think it is telling that there are only 4 people who have responded that say that clams are always overpowered.

[Valandil]

I don't, really. Clams are a late game strat, and if they are overpowered, its only going to be apparent late game. Also, some o the no-votes are from maily SPers like myself. I have thus far forged two clams in MP games.

[jutetrea]

Limited experience caveat, few late game appearances:

In a mid-sized game (9-12? opponents, 15 prov/per) playing EA TC I had about 60-70 clams by turn 80. They weren't a main part of my strategy (considering I didn't have one), but every turn I'd forge 1 or 2 gems/hammers permitting. By about the same point I had about 15 fetishes and 30-40 stones as well.

EA TC has pretty easy access, the occasional natural forger and usually an easy +1W buff (robe, ring) to get to 3W1N.

Due to the inexperience, I threw up nexus at one point, made tons of astral gear, and had a wish going about every other turn. Somehow my pretender got insanity, so the wishes were a bit erratic. I usually wished for more gems, and occasionally slaves which fueled my other summons pretty handily.

In general I don't think the producers were the reason for my good position, but they didn't hurt either. I pooled the gems every few turns and used them instead of bulking them up for monster casts.

Like someone mentioned earlier, there are very few "investment" opportunities, and by late game they really start to tell.

I'm in favor of large game specific modification of gem producers. I like the disease/insanity/horror mark ideas if applicable.

[Evilhomer]

I like the disease/insanity/horror mark ideas if applicable

This will just mean that you have to move your clams around, i.e just more micromanagement involved. I prefer a cost-nerf instead of one that increases the dullness of handling these items.

[jutetrea]

disease possibly, but I'm not so sure on the other 2. Happy with a cost change as well, although I really wish it was dependent on game/individual totals. Sucks that someone who will be building 10 just to offset income gets hit as bad as the guy who builds 100.

For fetishes I usually just pick up a random indy commander or high HP low importance commander and remove right before they die. Bit of a pain to check hp, but not terrible.

Insanity would just make the unit temporarily unuseable, while the gems still accumulate. I usually put them on my researchers so it would force me to put them on other commanders, lesser researchers or purchase indys - which i don't think is a bad penalty.

Horrormarking, I never move my lightless around and have only been hit by horrors like 4 times in 8 months I've been playing. Not sure how they're measured, but would probably say a bit more severe then lightless - tart chains maybe? Not sure how the items are really ranked.

[Huzurdaddi]

I think that the changes in Dom3 have made rampant clamming (ie: turning over your inventory in clams every turn ) a thing of the past. But they still have some effect on games.

However, there is one thing about clams that I dislike, and perhaps this is what irks other people: clams are not reported on the gem income graph and it can be a big surprise when some nation who has been a mid tier nation suddenly busts out with the highest level magics.

The solution to this problem seems pretty simple: include generated gems in the gem income graph.

[Cor2]

heres a stupid but relevant question. Why is no one *****ing about sea king spamming?

Sea kings cost 35 more but provide a commander/water mage and troops. and only costs 3 water to summon, so its easier to get. It takes 55 turns for them to pay for themselves, but that is not taking into account the commander and units.

In my limited experince Sea king spamming does not happen. I think its the cost. So i say raise the cost to about 35 or 40 and be done with it.

[Jazzepi]

The reason people spam clams is because you can reduce the cost with hammers and a forge. Everyone who is talking about how clams pay for themselves in 15 turns clearly hasn't ever clam horded.

If you have a hammer, and a forge up, a clam costs 1 nature and 5 water, I believe. It's something ridiculously cheap.

Jazzepi