Opinions on Caelum (MA and other)

[Sir_Dr_D]

You can get around some of that Saint_Dude by setting the flying infantry to be body guards of flying commanders. You then give the commander the commands to hold for 5 turns, and then attack rear.

The real problem is the flying mechanism in the game is not all that great. Just like for light calvarary there needs to be some sort of skimish command to make them usefull.

If you ignore the limitations of the dominions battle engine, the Caleum race would use their mobility in battle a lot better. Archers would fire at the infantry until the infantry got close. Then they would take off to a furtor distance and continue to fire. It means that countering the archers with any sort of infantry or calvary wuold be pointless. You would have to use archers of your own, or magic. The caleum infantry in the mean time would mostly fly around out of harms way, until they see an a weakness somewhere in the army. Then they would quickly strike. As soon as resitance builds up though they would fly away and look for another opening. Still the infantry would probably not be all that usefull inside of a battle.They would be more effective outside of the battle. They would contantly be able to ambush small patrols, and break down supply lines. Even if the the flying ifantry is not all that good, there hit and run attacks would be deadly.

I do not expect illwinter to ever improve on the combat options. It does not seem to be a high priority of theres. Therfore the only way to mimic any of that is with stats. They should be good at taking out PD, and small patrols, but less uselfull in big battles. The best way that I see to mimic this is to rasie their defense so they are harder to hit, and maybe give them sort of first strike abilty, where there first attack is extra deadly. (to simulate an ambush). The extra defense can be seen as inherent to the Caelum race. Just like C'tis has natural extra protection, Calelum can have extra defense.

It seems unthemtic for me that Caleum's main strategy in the game is mammoths. For this reason, and to make Caelum more unique and fun to play, I would like to see their flying infantry improved.

[Xietor]

Caelum does not need ANY bonuses. Period. They are one of the stronger MA races right now. The only thing that keeps them balanced is their horrible pd, and the liability of their fliers.

Better infantry? They have tough infantry already. They have mammoths, the best elephant tramplers in the game. Great research. Great battle magic. on to ma Atlantis....

With all due respect to QM, who has devoted his life to balance, I maintain MA Atlantis is one of the worst ma races.

So what if they can cast falling frost? How does that help when your ground troops are slow and are being slaughtered by longbows or composite bows, which are out of range of falling frost? Many maps have very few water provinces so moving on to land is essential EARLY in the game.

Every race has some possible solutions. MA Atlantis can cast water elementals in battle etc. But you have to be highly skilled imho to beat another player of decent skill when you are playing ma atlantis.

And early in the game, MA Oceania cavalry and infantry are quite good against most land races' units.

[HoneyBadger]

One small thing that would really benefit Caelum in any age, without making them overly more powerful, is to equip some wingless troops with harpoons. That would give them a nice little boost, but at the same time, harpoons aren't going to win a game by themselves. They're also thematic, since any nation's going to want to possess the ability to strike at it's own people-and harpoons are the best choice vs flyers. Nets would also be good, as would a winged troop that simply dropped rocks on opponents.

Personally, if I were leading a nation of flyers, I'd just send them up to about 500 yards in the air with bags full of marble-sized to golfball-sized pebbles and have them drop them on any troops they happened to come across, but that's hard to simulate in the game.

[Sir_Dr_D]

My point Xieter isn't that Caelem is weak and therefore needs their flying infantry boosted in order to make up for it. My point is that because of the flying units Caleum sounds like a unique and interesting nation to play. It is dissapointing to find that to play completively caleum is not a nation of flying units, but a nation of mammoths. If I wanted to play as tramplers I would play as Acro.

My suggestion is 1) the raiding effectiveness of the infanty be improved and 2) the mammoths are weakened in some way. This will have the effect of making Caleum more themetic and playing like the nation and unit descriptions make Caelum sound. Plus it will give Caalum more of a distinct play style that is different from the other nations. More effective flying units would be fun.

Caleum is not a very balanaced nation among itself, as only some of the units are viable options. I would rather play a nation that is less completive over all but every unit has a strategic use, then a nation where only a few units are usefull.

[Saint_Dude]

Sir_Dr_D said:
My point Xieter isn't that Caelem is weak and therefore needs their flying infantry boosted in order to make up for it. My point is that because of the flying units Caleum sounds like a unique and interesting nation to play. It is dissapointing to find that to play completively caleum is not a nation of flying units, but a nation of mammoths. If I wanted to play as tramplers I would play as Acro.

This is my sentiment as well.

[RamsHead]

HoneyBadger said:
One small thing that would really benefit Caelum in any age, without making them overly more powerful, is to equip some wingless troops with harpoons. That would give them a nice little boost, but at the same time, harpoons aren't going to win a game by themselves. They're also thematic, since any nation's going to want to possess the ability to strike at it's own people-and harpoons are the best choice vs flyers. Nets would also be good, as would a winged troop that simply dropped rocks on opponents.

Personally, if I were leading a nation of flyers, I'd just send them up to about 500 yards in the air with bags full of marble-sized to golfball-sized pebbles and have them drop them on any troops they happened to come across, but that's hard to simulate in the game.

Actually, I don't think it would be that hard to simulate. If you are modding, take a Caelian unit to make your rock-dropper guy. Give him a ranged weapon with a certain number of effects. Give him a negative reinvigoration of 20 or so, and, viola, you have your rock-dropper guy. The weapon's range will indicate how far the guy can fly out with the bag of rocks, the number of effects will obviously indicate how many rocks are in each bag, and the steadily increasing fatigue will indicate the exhaustion the guy feels when he is flying around with a bag of rocks. The problem will be that he will continue to get fatigued after 100, so it would not be a perfect simulation but close.

[Kuritza]

Xietor said: Better infantry? They have tough infantry already.

On paper only

[Endoperez]

Giving all their infantry Javelins might do something. For some reason, fliers set to Hold&Attack Closest (and first firing their javelins) seem to stay in tighter groups, and Fire Rearmost also seems to work a bit better. I noticed this when testing the very promising Caelis Immolatum (sp?) mod, that was quickly discontinued.


Here's what would have to be changed.


#selectmonster 129
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 130
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 131
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 132
#weapon "Ice Blade"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 420
#weapon "Ice Blade"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 421
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 358
#weapon "Ice Blade"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

#selectmonster 414
#weapon "Ice Lance"
#weapon "Javelin"
#end

[Shovah32]

Rock dropping combat infantry could have a single-use attack(like lances) to simulate them dropping rock/s before charging in.
I also wouldnt mind a bit of a defense bonus.

I hate spanish net cafe keyboards.

[Xietor]

Temple guards with a water bless are capable infantry-trust me.

Mix in those high morale wingless with the mammoths and you have an unstoppable early raiding force early in the game.

Research evocation, and back those mammoths up with thunderstrike/orb lighting, and your opponent better be a skilled player or it is lights out.

And if the opponent is ma ulm, it is likely lights out regardless of the player's skill level.