Byblical Mod Discussion ("Moved" from Dom3 forum)

[Agrajag]

I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying there isn't a point.
You get all the holy spells at Holy-5, and the added preaching bonus isn't very useful.

[WraithLord]

Agrajag said:
No spears?
As far as I know from bible lessons, spears were used (IIRC the Akravaim from "Avi yser etchem beshotim veani ayaser etchem beakravim" were spearlike)

Not sure about that, slings, bows, staffs and maybe short swords as far as I recall.

Agrajag said:
And Ya'akov grabbed the ankle of Esav when they exited their mother's womb.

right of course, glad I have already done "tanach bagrut"

Agrajag said:
As for the tribes, in the bible the different tribes didn't have much of a different identity to emphasize in the game, so I don't see how you can add them (except for maybe the Levi).
Maybe they are mentioned in other sources, but I wouldn't know about that.

Makes sense, I was just throwing this as an idea.

Agrajag said:
And cavalry is an option, IIRC king David had many horses at his disposal. (Though I agree cavalry should be weak, if at all existing, since in most of he stories the Israelites had very little cavalry/horses, and Israel does not have any natural population of horses AFAIK)

Maybe weak cavalry, I'm not sure it adds much in terms of thematic value.

[Nerfix]

Agrajag said:
I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying there isn't a point.
You get all the holy spells at Holy-5, and the added preaching bonus isn't very useful.

Added Holy can be useful with the Banishment spells.

Oh, and early ideas on units:

Militia:

Havay

Sling/Sickle

Havay

Scythe

Warriors:

Shomer Shayarot

Short Sword/Round Shield/Leather Armor/Copper Helmet

Lo'hem

Axe/Sling/Round Shield/Leather Armor/Copper Helmet

Tsayad

Axe/Short Bow/Leather Armor

The Elites:

Oman 'Herev (12 attack, 12 defence)

Short Sword/Round Shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

Lo'hem Vatik (high precision, 11 strenght)

Axe/Sling/Round shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

"Settlement Guard" (counts as 2 men in siege)

Mace/Sling/Round shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

"Holy Warrior" (high stats, sacred)

Axe/Sling/Round Shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

[Agrajag]

Sounds cool!
Comments:
-Its kind of funny, with all this holy these guys are going to become serious Undead killers, despite almost no mention at all of the Undead in the bible. But it's unavoidable.
-Short Swords/Axes/Maces should be Copper Short Swords/Copper Axes/Copper Maces, which should have slightly weaker stats (0-1 less attack than the original,0-1 less defence that the original, 1-2 less damage than the original).
-"Holy Warrior" can be:
I. Lohem Kadosh (holy warrior)
II. Lohem Kodesh (a warrior of holyness)
III. Lohem Mekudash (holy warrior [the difference is "mekudash" is passive, someone who has been made holy, while "kadosh" is simply holy)
IV. Lohem Masu'ah (an anointed warrior)
-"Settelment Guard" can be:
I. Shomer Yeshuvim (guardian of settelments)
II. Magen Yeshuvim (guardian of settelments)
III. Magen Hityashvuyot (guardian of settelments)
IV. Shomer Hityashvuyot (guardian of settelments)
V. Shomer Mivtsarim (guardian of fortresses)
VI. Magen Mivtsarim (guardian of fortresses)
VII. Shomer Bitsurim (guardian of barricades)
VIII. Magen Bitsurim (guardian of barricades)
IX. Magen Homot (guardian of walls)
X. Shomer Homot (guardian of walls)
XI. Shomer Migdalim (guardian of towers)
XII. Magen Migdalim (guardian of towers)
-10 units is average, you could add more by adding spear-bearers ("'Hanita'im"/"Kidona'im") , if you think it is necessary.

[Nerfix]

Spear-bearers?

[Agrajag]

You know, guys with spears, Spearmen O_O
Probably with a warrior chassis and:
Spear/Leather Armor/Copper Helmet
Maybe a Round Shield as well.

[Nerfix]

Agrajag said:
You know, guys with spears, Spearmen O_O
Probably with a warrior chassis and:
Spear/Leather Armor/Copper Helmet
Maybe a Round Shield as well.

Aaah, yes. Mmmmaybe.

BTW, does anybody here have any knowledge on the angels?

EDIT: M ysuggested lineup of magic sites

Cloud Pillars 1 S 1 A
Crystal Flames 1 S 1 F
Ancient Temple 1 S
*either of the GE Arco non-gem sites*

Unaesthetic, but it gives 3S 1 A 1F, and the Cloud Pillars are rather fitting, aren't they?

Depending on the number of capitol only units one of the Arco GE sites will be used.

[Agrajag]

Actually, I think its a rather fitting lineup.
Crystal Flames is kind of thematic if you think about the high priest's vest with 12 gems. (not sure if it whould be translated to gems, but it doesn't matter much either )

As for the angels... In the Bible angels are actually just messengers, and appear just like any other human being (ie no wings). If you feel like adding cooler angels you can add Seraphim, angels with many (I think four or eight) wings made of fire, and bigger than normal men IIRC.
My knowledge of jewish mysticism is rather limited...

*checks hebrew wikipedia* (there's a lot of interesting information in the english wikipedia, but you can read that yourself, and I'm kind of busy right now :\)
According to the hebrew wikipedia (which is luckily much more succint than the English one) angels in the bible are just messengers, but later a new meaning was created for them (traditional angels we all know).
Angels can look like people, they can also become invisible (glamour/ethereal?)
There are "angels of grace" which are immortal and angels of judgement (including the good ol' angel of death.), regarding whom there's no mention of immortality.
On rare occasions people can become angels.
Everything has a guardian angel, even plants. The angel that is in charge of mankind is called "Tselem"(image) or "Mazal"(luck).
Each angel usually performs just one function/mission.
Kruvim are... warriorlike angels... They have four wings and "the image of their face is that of the face of man, and the face of lion,and the face of bull, and the face of eagle). Apparently, they guard the tree of life. picture of assyrian statue that supposedly resemebles a kruv. They are armed with "Haravot Mithap'hot" (it is uknown exactly what this means, but with strict translation they are "turning swords", and IMO it means flaming swords).
Another page states they have the hands and body of a man, the hooves of a calf and the wings of an eagle.
The Seraphim are angels made from a burning material and they praise god. They have six (fiery?) wings, two to cover their legs, two to cover their faces, and two to fly with.
The entry also mentions four "special" angels, Gavriel, an angel of fire and heroism, lord of justice. Mi'hael, an angel of the grace of water and snow, lord of light, and warlord of god's army. Ori'el, an angel of enlightenment and intelligence, in charge of the armies of angels and "hell"(not really hell, but I don't know how to translate :\). Repha'el, an angel of healing. These guys symbolize the four elements (AFAIK, Gavriel=Fire, Mihael=Water, Ori'el=Air, Repha'el=Earth). (these guys are nice elemental summons / hero material)
One last thing is that angels could also be manifestation of a natural force.

Enough of angels for you?

[Amos]

According to Rosemary Guiley, who wrote the book Encyclopedia of Angels, an angel is defined as "a supernatural being who mediates between God and mortals. The angels' primary duty is to shuttle back and forth between realms, bringing human prayers to heaven and returning with God's answers." The term "angel" comes from the Greek "angelos," which means messenger; in Hebrew the term "malakh" also means messenger, and in Persian the term "angaros" means courier.

Angels are grouped into nine different Choirs. Each Choir is a group of angels with the same mission. The nine Choirs are grouped into three classes. Each class contains three groups. The highest class of angels is known as Angels of Pure Contemplation. The three groups in the Angels of Pure Contemplation are the Seraphim, Cheribim, and the Thrones. They are endowed with the highest degree of knowledge and awareness of God. The middle class of angels is known as Angels of the Cosmos. The Angels of the Cosmos consist of the Dominions, Powers, and the Virtues. The Angels of the Cosmos assign the power and instruction they receive from the Angels of Pure Contemplation. The lowest class of angels is known as the Angels of the World. The three groups consist of the Prinicipalities, Archangels, and Angels. The Angels of the World give the power they receive from the Angels of Cosmos to the earth. According to Janice Connell, here is the ranking of angels into a hierarchy:


DIVINITY: UNCREATED ENERGY
CREATION: Created Energy
The Nine Choirs of Angels
ANGELS OF PURE CONTEMPLATION
Govern all Creation
1. Seraphim
2. Cherubim
3. Thrones
ANGELS OF THE COSMOS
Govern all the Cosmos
4. Dominions
5. Powers
6. Virtues
ANGELS OF THE WORLD
Govern all the World
7. Principalities
8. Archangels
9. Angels
Angels of Pure Contemplation:

Seraphim
The Seraphim are closest to God and sometimes referred to as "burning fires of love" because they are angels of the purest love. Rulers of the Seraphim are Seraphiel, Jahoel, Metatron, and Michael.

Cherubim
These are the voices of divine wisdom, possessing a deep insight into God's secrets. Chiefs of the Cherubim are Ophaniel, Rikbiel, Cherubiel, Raphael, and Gabriel.

Thrones
Thrones are the angels of peace and submisssion. They reside in the area of the cosmos where material form begins to take shape.

Angels of the Cosmos:
Dominions
These angels regulate the duties of the angels, making known the commands of God.

Powers
These are known as potentates. They fight against evil spirits who attempt to wreak chaos through human beings. The chief is said to be either Samael or Camael, both angels of darkness.

Virtues
The Virtues are sometimes referred to as "the shining ones." They Govern all of nature. They have control over seasons, stars, moon; even the sun is subject to their command. They are also in charge of miracles and provide courage, grace, and valor.

Angels of the World:
Principalities
These angels have "princely powers" and watch over the actions of the Earth's nations and cities. They also govern and protect religion on earth. Their chiefs are Requel, Anael, Cerviel, and Nisroc.

Archangels
The Archangels communicate between God and mortals. They are also in charge of Heaven's armies in the battle against hell, and supervise the guardian angels. They themselves are guardian angels to great people, such as heads of religions and states.

Angels
These angels are closest to the material world and human begins. They deliver the prayers to God and God's answers and other messages to humans.
All the angels of the nine Choirs are actively engaged in the mission of helping humans gain entrances into the Kingdom of Heaven.


A List of Angels:
Angel Gabriel:
The name Gabriel means "hero of God" or "the mighty one" in Hebrew. Gabriel sits at the left hand of God. Gabriel is connected to the delivery of important news. Gabriel is the angel who announces the coming birth of John the Baptist. Gabriel is best known for announcing the coming birth of Jesus. Gabriel appears to Mary and gives her tidings that she will become pregnant with a child who will be named Jesus. Gabriel is also the angel who appears to Joseph in a dream and warns him to take his family and leave Egypt.

Guardian Angel:
A Guardian Angel is bound to a person from birth to death. Guardian Angels' duties are to provide protection, guidance, and companionship (Guiley). Each human has their own guardian angel assigned just to them.

Michael the Archangel:
The name Michael in Hebrew means "who is like God" or "who is as God." According to the Encyclopedia of Angels, Michael holds numerous offices in heaven. He is the chief of the virtues and archangels, a prince of the presence, and the angel of repentance, righteousness, mercy, and salvation. Michael is the special defender of Catholics and the church. Michael is the angel who wages war against the forces of Satan.

Raphael:
The name Raphael in Hebrew means healer or doctor. Raphael is known as "the medicine of God" or "the shining one who heals." According to Guiley, Raphael is associated with the symbol of healing, is entrusted with the physical well-being of earth and humans, and Raphael is said to be the friendlist of angels. Raphael is the angel of joy, light, peace, prayer, and love.

Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Anael, Samael, Sachiel, Cassiel:
These seven angels always stand before the face of God. They are entrusted to govern the world.


Planetary Angels:
Sun--Michael
Moon--Gabriel
Mercury--Raphael
Venus--Anael
Mars--Samael
Jupiter--Sachiel
Saturn--Cassiel

Angels of the Days of the Week
Sunday--Michael
Monday--Gabriel
Tuesday--Samael
Wednesday--Raphael
Thursday--Sachiel
Friday--Anael
Saturday--Cassiel

The Hierarchy of Angels
by Melissa Ann Miranda

[Endoperez]

I remember reading something similar when I tried to find news about Dominions. What with both Seraphim and Virtue in the game that has you spreading your dominion...