Well, I'm through with the game

[Twan]

I don't find time to continue these games, but had good experiences of challenging SP in dominions 3, using boosted AIs (with mod and map changed to give them immobile researchers, more gem income, better scales and pretenders etc...). Of course the AIs are still stupid, but if you give them about 80 RP / 20 gems a turn at start, they tend to use their mages more.

I guess I should post my AI boosters on the maps&mod forum one day.

[llamabeast]

Yep, as Twan says, you can use map commands to design the AI pretenders yourself, and then they can still be on Impossible or whatever. You can easily set it up so that the game is extremely difficult to win.

I have to agree that in the late game the AI can't compete with things like SCs and ingenious use of battle magic. But difficulties like death scale use are very easy to fix.

[Chris_Byler]

Aezeal said:
- AI should have notion of which troops are good/decent/bad and never spend money on anything in the bad group (couldn't you add a secret tag to troops saying this?)

You could, but it would be nearly as much effort as just *improving* the bad troops (in stats, cost, or whatever it is they're so bad at), which would clearly be a better move.

[Edratman]

I am a SP player because I am sure that I would not be able to fulfill my obligations to a MP game.

But I am going to join the ranks of the defenders for the SP game. I enjoy the SP game. The AI whipped my butt for several weeks before I caught on. Now it is faily easy for me, but I still enjoy the games. I've tried the all human start, map modding to give the AI an advantage, scales variations, etc, but it is still beatable. (I must admit that I only start in a corner because I got overwhelmed by 5 neighboring opponents last time I didn't. That tells me the AI has some degree of competance, at least in the early game.)

I limit my play to 100 to 125 province maps and still do not finish games because of the micromanagement. That bothers me only a little bit. The major issue with this is that I quit before I've researched all the spells. (Tried easy research and didn't like it, probably because it changed the rhythm of the game as I learned to play it.)

I read the MP posts and it does seem to be a lot more fun and a much more intricate game. Players are always referring to situations, tactics and combinations that I have never encountered or even had occasion to use.

But the SP game still amuses me after a year. What more can one ask of a game? And as several others have said, what strategy game AI is any better?

[Endoperez]

People still play the demo of Dom:PPP to avoid the turn limit.


Think about that for a while.

Dom:PPP's sprites are half that of DomII/3, and those sprites aren't nearly as well drawn. The maps are pixel-porridge that's nigh unlegible with the base colors of the maps that come with the game. Province info (magic sites, dominion, statistics) takes perhaps 1/3rd of the screen, and commander view (about 9 commanders at once) another third, while gems aren't shown until you go to laboratory. That means that you have less info visible at once, but it takes so much space that only one third of the screen shows the map, at once. I don't think you can zoom the map either. But I recently found a thread named Dominions: Priests, Prophets and Pretenders because the original demo HAS NO TURN LIMITS and wider selection of nations, and thus the poster played it rather than the later demos.

I found the thread from Dwarf Fortress forums, who are used to bad interfaces and not-so-good graphics, but it's still rather amazing.

[quantum_mechani]

AstralWanderer said:
Hmph...I only do SP since my gaming habits are sporadic enough to rule out MP, so is there any possibility to mod a better AI?

Edratman said:I am a SP player because I am sure that I would not be able to fulfill my obligations to a MP game.

Just pointing out, long term games are not the only kinds of MP games. Sounds like one sitting games would fit your schedules better.

And no, it is not currently possible (or likely in the future), to have a moddable AI.

[NTJedi]

jscott said:
Even if the AI doesn't starve its armies, a death scales strategy only works for nations that don't require much gold to produce units. If the AI is randomly picking it, its gutting its own economy and making itself weaker over time (when it should be getting stronger!).

You can't pick the AI pretender. If you start a game as a human player and then set control to the AI, it sets to the normal AI only. The normal AI isn't challenging enough.

I can't use RanDom to create scenario maps, so that's out (there aren't enough maps in the first place that can be used for a long term single player game).

I understood it was a multiplayer game. I probably got close to my money's worth. Its just ridiculous that the designers couldn't take two minutes to make sure the AI was choosing correct scales.

Its not as though you have to make a very hard call on who is going to use death 3 scales. Only 1-2 nations can get by with it!

You can prevent the AI from using death scales via map edit commands. Open the .map file using notepad then place the command preferably at the bottom so it's easy to find. For example adding #scale_death 17 -3 would have the Niefielheim giants start with a growth scale of 3.

Start with just providing the AI with a growth scale and before you giving them other stuff I recommend testing before playing an actual game.

With time you'll see how it's possible to setup the AI opponents as allies, provide the AI with strong pretenders, position a super powerful AI far away to provide huge late game battles, and if you're brave enough you can even provide the AI with it's own very powerful SC's.

If you provide the AI with pretenders you can choose it's blesses. I recommend providing AI opponents with either an immobile pretender or a size 2 or smaller pretender for the AI opponents otherwise they will blindly send them into the arena death match against each other.

The biggest AI weakness is most AI nations lack the units and programming to know how to enter water provinces. So unless you play with specific AI opponents you'll want zero water provinces otherwise the human opponent will have a strong advantage.

[NTJedi]

quantum_mechani said:
And no, it is not currently possible (or likely in the future), to have a moddable AI.

Unfortunately this is true for Dominions_3.

Some moddable AI is available for recent games such as Neverwinter Nights(RPG) and for older games such as Warcraft_2(RTS)... both were successful and provided great new gameplay. I believe Age_of_Empires_2 also had some moddable AI options.

Some other good news is I emailed Stardock with a list of suggestions for their upcoming fantasy TBS game and they responded saying all my suggestions were already working or are planned to be implemented which includes modifying the AI via scripts.

[HoneyBadger]

I would think the simplest solution to most of the really severe AI problems would be the option to "blankscreen" the map (you'd click on a button that causes the whole map to appear blank except for your home province, and it couldn't be undone until the next turn) before the game starts, so that you could set up the computer's Pretenders, and if you wish, take their first turn for them, without also learning exactly where on the map they are. Ofcourse, the Devs would have to get involved to implement something like this.

Another way around the AI limitations would be if there could be AI-only heroes, which would consist of SC-built national units/summons, and maybe the AI's normal heroes could come pre-built as well, with suitable magic items.

Maybe a system could even be implemented whereby, progressively as the AI recruits it's most powerful units, those units get better equipment for free. Example: The first 5 Niefel Jarls the AI recruits have 0 extra equipment, but the 6th through 8th starts with weightless scalemail and an ice sword, and the 9th-11th gets copper plate, fear helmet, and sword of quickness. 12 and up get a frost brand, copper plate, ring of regeneration, amulet
of missle protection, and fear helmet.

This could be simulated a bit by modders if each nation had an AI version that included units already equipped as thugs and SCs.

Similar things could be done to the magic system, getting rid of spells the AI wouldn't be able to easily implement, and making improved spells that only the AI can use.

Also, if certain units could be "turned off" to the AI, so the AI couldn't recruit them, like various poor choice independents and national recruits, that would help as well.

I have no idea how difficult these would be to code, ofcourse, if the Devs got involved, but I've tried to come up with things that wouldn't be too excruciating to implement.

I love SP by the way. I don't play Dominions to win the game, I play it to pique my imagination. Most of the game for me is the role-playing that goes on inside my head, modding, and enjoying the mods other people create.

[jscott]

Another solution would be for the developers to just take a few moments and stop the AI from randomly picking its scales.

That's what they are doing people, they are randomly picking their scales!

That is ridiculous to pass off as AI for a single player game.

I understand that many of you play MP and believe the game is MP only. Why bother posting in a thread like this if that's what you believe? Some of us will never play the multiplayer. That's just a fact. I never will.

What I would like, though, is for the SP to not insult my intelligent by implementing sloppy design that masquerades like its an actual single player opponent. Random decision making is not AI. Its not a single player opponent. Its just a sign of abject laziness. If you are going to do that, then simply don't have a SP component at all and all confusion over this issue will be over.

Random scales!? That's just absurd.

And that's why Dominions 3 ultimately earns a thumbs down from me and why I won't be playing it going forward.