SEV question - new design tech levels?

[PvK]

Nice idea, SJ... and sorta kinda a work-around, hmm, though it sounds like it means modding both the SE4 way and the SE5 way, twice. Lots of work, but it could be close to working the right way. So if I have a weapon tech that has three levels, it'd be:

Category: Death Ray - Latest Only
Death Ray component (SE5 definition of levels 1-3)
Category: Death Ray - Show All
Death Ray Level 1 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 2 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 3 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Category: All Equipment - Latest Only
Death Ray component (SE5 definition of levels 1-3)
Category: All Equipment - Show All
Death Ray Level 1 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 2 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 3 component (SE4-like definition of one level)

That would allow users to do what they can do in SE4 - sort either by type, or show all types, and either show latest, or all tech levels. Takes more than twice as much mod copy/paste as in SE4, though I guess, as in SE4, someone can eventually write a UI/script that can generate the needed mod code.

Or, MM could fix the UI so it lets you select older versions of components (and vehicle sizes...).

PvK

[Baron Munchausen]

PvK said:
Seems like it is nearly removing an option that existed in SE4. Many of the techs in Proportions mod, for example, can be researched to high levels for eventually diminishing returns but high costs. They are still useful to use for elite units, but one may consider whether they want fewer units with the best technology can offer, or cheaper more numerous units with less impressive technology.

In addition to the other uncountered reasons why someone might want to use lower tech, here's another: What if you want to build a new ship design, but don't want enemies to be able to scan it and find out your tech levels, or you want to deceive them into thinking you have lower tech than you do? Better use an old design, because it's just impossible to make new designs using old tech?

But no, I just have to remember to pre-make designs with enough of the old components on them to be able to copy and edit later - so I can still do it (except for different hull sizes I haven't researched yet), but only if I waste time making extra designs just to give me options I otherwise won't have because the UI won't let me.

PvK

Yes, this is a loss of functionality and game play options. We complained about it several times. Like we complained about many other things several times (*cough* clumsy UI *cough*). MM is just so busy trying to program an entire 4X game by himself that he fumbles and forgets things. We have to get together and stage a coordinated protest to get him to focus on something.

As with everything else, a bunch of ordinary players emailing him about the issues that we raised my make him finally do something...

[Rollo]

Considering other things which could be improved, I find this one a pretty low priority.
Personally it never even crossed my mind using a lower level component.

[Suicide Junkie]

Very true. I think this is one of those molehills on the landscape of SE5.

[se5a]

while I would personaly like to have the option of using older tech, I probibly wouldn't do it enough to warrent bugging aaron to code the option.
there's too much other stuff I would rather him spend time on.

[AMF]

While I would agree that there are a whole lot of other bugs that need to be fixed first, the fix to this may be easy and, perhaps more importantly, if no one tells Aaron that it's a problem then there is zero chance of him fixing it. I say tell him and let him make the call.

[RonGianti]

Cant this be done another way in game? For example, if you want to have an outdated design kicking around, just leave an outdated design kicking around. You designed Destroyer III, then its been updated to Destroyer VI and now you want III back, just:

1. Dont make it obsolete
2. Uncheck the filter so you can see obsolete ships.

Sure its slightly clunky but it should work and without programing.

It seems to me that we're all pushing ourselves up against a wall trying to make SEv do exactly what SEiv did, and ignoring all our new options...

[arthurtuxedo]

One thing I've noticed is that cost does not increase with each level nearly as much as it did in SE4, so there's a lot less reason to want older, cheaper components. I think people are mostly upset because they can't think of a way to have a mod where someone might knowingly design ships with cheaper, but less capable components. But I've never liked the idea of older tech remaining viable, anyway. If older tech is still viable, why waste the research on the new stuff?

This just means people have to come up with new (and in my opinion, better) ideas of accomplishing this type of situation. SJ's idea is a good one, here's another:

You have two entries for a component. One is the standard model where it gets better and more expensive as the levels go up. The other is the "inferior" model that doesn't improve as fast, but the cost doesn't go up. Maybe it even goes down with each level. So you can still have the "quality vs. quantity" dichotomy without decreasing the value of research.

Personally, I don't see any good reason to spend a lot of effort making older tech levels selectable. I think most of the complaints are simply because people haven't thought up ideas to fit the new system yet.