Tien Chi Default

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by rabelais:
Can someone spoil me on how hero acquisition actually works?

Hero acquisition is not cumulative. You get a 3% + luck chance of a hero every turn, as long as supplies permit. So if you have a 6%(w/ luck 3) chance of getting a hero this turn, you STILL have a 6% chance of getting one next turn. It's not going to be 12%. This means you have a 94% chance of NOT getting a hero on any given turn. So after 16 turns, you have a (0.94)^16 = 37% chance of not getting a hero. Hardly a hero every 16 turns or so. After 50 turns, you'll have a ~4.5% chance of not getting a hero. It can happen, but it's not lucky.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Hero acquisition is not cumulative. You get a 3% + luck chance of a hero every turn, as long as supplies permit. So if you have a 6%(w/ luck 3) chance of getting a hero this turn, you STILL have a 6% chance of getting one next turn. It's not going to be 12%. This means you have a 94% chance of NOT getting a hero on any given turn. So after 16 turns, you have a (0.94)^16 = 37% chance of not getting a hero. Hardly a hero every 16 turns or so. After 50 turns, you'll have a ~4.5% chance of not getting a hero. It can happen, but it's not lucky.

Hmm. Well I think it should be cumulative. Even if at a lower base.

Make the difference between luck and misfortune more discernable.

Rabe the Bummed

[SelfishGene]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
Any other tips for Default theme?

Imperial Consorts are (of course imo) the single best unit in the game. Even against real players and not simply the AI. They are virtually impossible to detect and require a ton of troops patrolling a province to be caught - in truth, i've yet to have a single one be uncovered.

Consorts can shut an opponents' economy down HARD. One consort causing unrest can usually be managed with 80-90% taxes - which cuts income by 25%+. Two will require 50% and the unrest will still build without patrolling. Over three and that province is locked down. You can send them straight to your opponents capital without any fear at all with their +30 stealth. It usually only takes five or six consorts to cut an opponents income by nearly half if placed correctly. Forge Rings of Water Breathing + Flying Shoes (each only 5 gems), and you shut down underwater provinces. I can't play T'ien Ch'i without consorts.

Red Guards are great. Imperial Crossbows are basically the best crossbow unit you can buy. Mages are sacred so cheaper to maintain. Eunuchs are not at all bad to have around once your past the early game (for that extra insurance).

The only mediocre unit is the Prince General, but i still buy them anyway .

My favorite blessing is Astral-9 for Red Guards; gives them a much greater chance of avoiding 'bad luck' and lets them close ranks. Also means they can charge straight into enemy cavalry and win every time.

Best T'ien C'hi build ive come up with is:

Oracle w/ 9 Astral
6 Dominion w/ Ceremonial Faith
2 Order, 1 Productivity, 2 Growth
Fortified City.

This seems to work very well and feels like it fits the theme nicely.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by SelfishGene:
Imperial Consorts are (of course imo) the single best unit in the game. Even against real players and not simply the AI. They are virtually impossible to detect and require a ton of troops patrolling a province to be caught - in truth, i've yet to have a single one be uncovered.

They have the same stealth as the spies that are available to Ulm or Marignon, but cost 10 gold more. They will be found quite easily in an opponent's capital if the initial province defense is still there. It should only take about 25-40 units patrolling to find it in a few turns otherwise. Black Forest Ulms Members of the Second Tier are considerably more stealthy and also have astral 2, blood 1. They can cast ritual of returning to make it much harder to actually kill them.

[SelfishGene]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
They have the same stealth as the spies that are available to Ulm or Marignon, but cost 10 gold more. They will be found quite easily in an opponent's capital if the initial province defense is still there. It should only take about 25-40 units patrolling to find it in a few turns otherwise. Black Forest Ulms Members of the Second Tier are considerably more stealthy and also have astral 2, blood 1. They can cast ritual of returning to make it much harder to actually kill them.

Actually no they don't. Spies have +20 stealth; Consorts have +30. Send a spy to incite unrest in an enemy capital and they are immediately uncovered (i just tested this) - like i said before ive NEVER had a Consort be uncovered.

Members of the Second Tier cost 160 gold and have the same +30 stealth rating. Per gold consorts are much more efficient at causing unrest (obviously). For other uses, perhaps, the Illuminati are better.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by SelfishGene:
Actually no they don't. Spies have +20 stealth; Consorts have +30. Send a spy to incite unrest in an enemy capital and they are immediately uncovered (i just tested this) - like i said before ive NEVER had a Consort be uncovered.

I have uncovered them on a regular basis with not too many troops patrolling. What I was thinking of was Man's Bards.

[SelfishGene]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I have uncovered them on a regular basis with not too many troops patrolling. What I was thinking of was Man's Bards.

Oh well i haven't played that much in multi so i would assume it were at least possible, but in the game i have played ive yet to uncover a Consort in my territory despite constant unrest reports and patrolling. Although i really can't afford to patrol...

But ive never had a consort of my own be revealed in test games vs. the computer. Up to Hard. So im happy to use them, and they're cheaper than Bards as well . I think reveal is:

Spy automatically revealed if ProvinceDefence/Stealth => 1

I don't know how many troops you need to patrol to uncover *X* stealth with *Y* P.Defence.

[ March 24, 2004, 03:51: Message edited by: SelfishGene ]

[PvK]

It's a random chance of detection, not an automatic threshold. Some stealthy units have stealth +0 and can sometimes escape detection in tough provinces where others are sometimes captured the first time.

PvK

[tinkthank]

[quote]Originally posted by SelfishGene:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

Spy automatically revealed if ProvinceDefence/Stealth => 1

That would surprise me, considering most stealthy units in the game have a stealth value of 0.

[PhilD]

Originally posted by rabelais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Hero acquisition is not cumulative. You get a 3% + luck chance of a hero every turn, as long as supplies permit. So if you have a 6%(w/ luck 3) chance of getting a hero this turn, you STILL have a 6% chance of getting one next turn. It's not going to be 12%. This means you have a 94% chance of NOT getting a hero on any given turn. So after 16 turns, you have a (0.94)^16 = 37% chance of not getting a hero. Hardly a hero every 16 turns or so. After 50 turns, you'll have a ~4.5% chance of not getting a hero. It can happen, but it's not lucky.

Hmm. Well I think it should be cumulative. Even if at a lower base.

Make the difference between luck and misfortune more discernable.

Rabe the Bummed

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The difference IS discernable, only there's a large uncertainty on when you'll get Heroes, if any.

With Misfortune 2, you only have about 19% chance of getting a Hero in your 20 first turns.

Misfortune 1: 33%

Luck 0: 46%

Luck 1: 56%

Luck 2: 64%

Luck 3: 71%

Also, with the high luck Ratings, there is a decent chance that you will see more than one Hero in that amount of time, or maybe 30 turns. Not bad, if you have good Heroes.

Of course, most of the time just your Heroes are not a good reason to take Luck. But the difference IS significant.