Anybody else dislike the endgame? - Page 4

licker · #31 February 9th, 2004, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinkthank:

quote:
Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by tinkthank:
I can only imagine what UI coding is like, but who knows -- if I gather correctly, Dominions II is not something the people at Illwinter are doing in their spare time, but is a commercial enterprise complete with post-sale support, client binding and customer relations management

Then you would gather incorrectly, since I don't think anyone has ever said anything other than that the two programmers do it all in their spare time.
Are you serious?

He is serious... don't confuse (or merge) Illwinter with Shrapnel, they are entirely different entities

Wauthan · #32 February 9th, 2004, 07:43 PM

Makes you wonder what Dominions 3 might be like if they cooperate with a larger company. Such as Strategy First. Known for their good looking but somewhat simplistic games. Would be neat to have Dominions gameplay with Etherlords or Disciples graphics.

NTJedi · #33 February 9th, 2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saxon:
The comment that the end game is busy work is pretty accurate. The solution, from my point of view, is to ignore a lot of it. I stop worrying about every little thing, push the big things, and rush through turns.

Saxon is correct.
There is no need to change the orders of units which will have little or no effect to the end game results. Use your time wisely.
As every thread of gold is valuable so is every minute of time.

Or change the victory conditions so the game ends sooner.

[ February 09, 2004, 18:55: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

tinkthank · #34 February 10th, 2004, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saxon:

I guess what I am suggesting is that if you really want to play the game to the end, change your approach. It is fun and fast.

Sure.
But I think our tastes may differ. I like this game because of the depth to it. I don't "really" play to win, but to unfold my plans at various levels and see how they flourish -- or perish. I think some of the suggestions made here and other places could really be helpful. I can only imagine what UI coding is like, but who knows -- if I gather correctly, Dominions II is not something the people at Illwinter are doing in their spare time, but is a commercial enterprise complete with post-sale support, client binding and customer relations management -- well, it is at least a commercial enterprise (hence: us paying for their services), and although I hope UI coding isnt all that awful, I really do hope too that some of the less pleasant work will also get accomplished. It would be great for their excellent game and great for a lot of customers who think like I do.

tinkthank · #35 February 10th, 2004, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:

quote:
Originally posted by tinkthank:

quote:
Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by tinkthank:
I can only imagine what UI coding is like, but who knows -- if I gather correctly, Dominions II is not something the people at Illwinter are doing in their spare time, but is a commercial enterprise complete with post-sale support, client binding and customer relations management

Then you would gather incorrectly, since I don't think anyone has ever said anything other than that the two programmers do it all in their spare time.
Are you serious?
He is serious... don't confuse (or merge) Illwinter with Shrapnel, they are entirely different entities

This is news to me. It is certainly not the impression I get, or feel I am supposed to get, but perhaps that is because I feel that a 50 dollar price tag lends the impression that the product isn't to be treated like shareware. Ditto for the purchasers (clients) of the product (company).
Well hats off to a bunch of blokes who made this great game in their spare time. And ok for them for getting a publisher too. But boo! on Shrapnel then, because somebody is doing something with some money which should be going into post-sale client support, and I suspect it is Shrapnel. When I purchase software -- also from a small publisher or firm -- for 50 dollars, I expect at least some tacit agreement between buyer and supplier common in the game industry, and it seems to me if what you folks are saying is true that this is not the case here. Maybe I am a conservative boor (probably), but I find that irksome. I don't think it is right to put out a game and expect whomever (whether two guys sitting in their garage or 40 people in a well-furnished office) to bring out patches in their spare time or out of the goodness of their hearts. I think the game (like *any* software release) needs some work, and I feel it is the right of the customer to be able to say that without putting poor programmers under pressure who would rather or who have to do something else. Well I am sure no one here agrees with me, but unless you are joking with me I think this situation is not right.
Well this has nothing to do with the endgame issues, sorry. (They are secondary.) Hmpf well excuse me I think I just ranted there. But tell me honestly and as objectively as possible why I am wrong, if so.

condors · #36 February 10th, 2004, 01:27 PM

my favorite part of the game currently is the endgame. I am not a "vet" of the game. I have a set tactic i use for expansion when i don't do this i fall behind(i play with independents strength 9). I play ulm(usually normal but sometimes black forest or iron faith). I don't know all the iteam/spell combos. This is the part when i can test them and see if what works in my mind also works in the game.

johan osterman · #37 February 10th, 2004, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinkthank:
This is news to me. It is certainly not the impression I get, or feel I am supposed to get, but perhaps that is because I feel that a 50 dollar price tag lends the impression that the product isn't to be treated like shareware. Ditto for the purchasers (clients) of the product (company).
Well hats off to a bunch of blokes who made this great game in their spare time. And ok for them for getting a publisher too. But boo! on Shrapnel then, because somebody is doing something with some money which should be going into post-sale client support, and I suspect it is Shrapnel. When I purchase software -- also from a small publisher or firm -- for 50 dollars, I expect at least some tacit agreement between buyer and supplier common in the game industry, and it seems to me if what you folks are saying is true that this is not the case here. Maybe I am a conservative boor (probably), but I find that irksome. I don't think it is right to put out a game and expect whomever (whether two guys sitting in their garage or 40 people in a well-furnished office) to bring out patches in their spare time or out of the goodness of their hearts. I think the game (like *any* software release) needs some work, and I feel it is the right of the customer to be able to say that without putting poor programmers under pressure who would rather or who have to do something else. Well I am sure no one here agrees with me, but unless you are joking with me I think this situation is not right.
Well this has nothing to do with the endgame issues, sorry. (They are secondary.) Hmpf well excuse me I think I just ranted there. But tell me honestly and as objectively as possible why I am wrong, if so.

1 I think you are overestimating the kind of money dom 2 generates, and shrapnel actually passes on a relatively large chunk of the proceeds from dom 2 to illwinter. Also while there are not enormous amounts of cash being generated by dom 2 sales there is still some cashflow that passes unto illwiner, even after the punitive swedish taxation, so you do not have to rely solely on the goodness of Kristoffer and JK for them to put out patches to keep theirs and shrapnels customers
happy.

2 Considering the patch that is allready released and the patch that is on it's way I do not think that illwinter is providing less post game support than most bigtime developers. And the general consensus after the release of dom 1 seemed to be that illwinter provided more post game support than many other bigger companies, and at this point I see no reason for anybody to claim that these standards have fallen.

I am not even certain if I have adressed what you are ranting about, since I don't really get what the target of your rant is. As far as I can tell your basic complaint is that you believed illwinter to be bigger than it is. I do not think that anyone has tried to give you this impression, and of the games that shrapnel publishes it appears that they are generally made by 1 or 2 person companies, Malfador consists of Aaron Hall, Stormcloud creations of Derek etc. I do not even understand why you imagine shrapnel and or illwinter would want to give you this impression.

[ February 10, 2004, 11:49: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

tinkthank · #38 February 11th, 2004, 10:50 AM

OK.
Well good to hear that the Illwinter folks get some of the money. That was what my rant was about: My (mistaken) impression they do patch work in their spare time because they get no money. I don't want people slaving away in their spare time to keep me happy. I don't want people slaving in their spare time period. Hence the rant.
Now I am just confused as to why they do it in their spare time (since if they are receiving funds, then they are being payed for their work -- I hope).

Arryn · #39 February 11th, 2004, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinkthank:
Now I am just confused as to why they do it in their spare time (since if they are receiving funds, then they are being payed for their work -- I hope).

Because they do not earn enough money from Dominions to survive on that alone, they have to work normal jobs like most other people. Thus any work on Dominions must be in their spare time.

tinkthank · #40 February 12th, 2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arryn:

quote:
Originally posted by tinkthank:
Now I am just confused as to why they do it in their spare time (since if they are receiving funds, then they are being payed for their work -- I hope).

Because they do not earn enough money from Dominions to survive on that alone, they have to work normal jobs like most other people. Thus any work on Dominions must be in their spare time.

I think we are talking at cross-purposes. Perhaps we just have vastly different ideas of how the world functions or should function, and we probably won't understand each other on this point.