3d battle scenes are looking horrible! :(

[Mortifer]

cpbeller - you are very unique I must say. I know like 40 players who cannot stop playing Shadow Magic, because it is so good. To me Shadow Magic is lot better than Dominions, but that not means that I wont play Dom II.

[MythicalMino]

i just didn't like AoW2, or Shadow Magic...everything in the game(s) pointed to that I would enjoy it...but I never did...and couldn't force myself to play it for very long...It does have good production values and all...but for me...the game is just too boring...

[Mortifer]

Its all cool! We are different in every way, that is making the world wonderful!

[licker]

AoW 2 cost $50 or more didn't it? AoW SM cost significantly less, as it was more of an addon to AoW 2, even though it is a stand alone product. I'm a big fan of the AoW series though, I've played them all, but I have to say that AoW 2 was seriously flawed in many ways, and SM, while correcting alot of the issues that 2 had, still seems to be lacking in some regaurds. Of course its all personal opinion, if you want the more epic feel Dom is the direction to go, if you want a more beer and pretzels game AoW is still the best in its class.

The big issue for me is and always will be SP, as I really don't have the time for MP, and PBEM is too slow for my tastes, though in Dom it is less of a problem as the turn mechanics and overall pace seem a better fit for me. SP in AoW SM is ok for a while, then it rapidly decends into utter boredom as you are forced to micro your cities and armies to a horrible extent. Dom may not be much better, but hopefully Dom2 will fix some of the micro hell that Dom1 contains. Another problem bedeviling AoW SM is the lack of variety in composing your armies. Most races have 3-4 units that simply never get built ever, and once you pass a certain point in the game lvl1 units are never built either (other than the occasional ranged unit for garrison duty). Eventully even the lvl2s are never built. That is a failling of many games though, not having a place for every unit in the game. Dom seems to do better at this, though I'm sure there are some units for some nations that are rarely built.

The gfx and sound for AoW are excellent though, and the game does deserve credit for that, no matter how unimportant it may be to some individuals. The reality is that a game with excellent game play but poor gfx will remain a cult classic, never gaining the acclaim it deserves. Sad to say that perhaps, but what can you do? There is always a crowd that can't get past the gfx, and they are a larger crowd than the grognards who value gameplay over eye candy.

I think that Dom2 looks quite good (much improved over Dom1), and though I can't comment on the sound or music, I don't really care (I normally turn it all off anyway). Hopefully Dom2 will get the praise and sales it deserves, in the end only the total quality of the game will determine what that should be

[LordArioch]

Dominions SP is better than Shadow magic SP for sure...fighting the shadow magic ai is basically just killing lots of level 1 units and getting hit by random damage spells. Also as mentioned before there are only a few useful units despite attempts to fix the issue in shadow magic. And with the "AI ignores concealment" and protections being pretty much worthless there really arent many special abilites per unit. It looks like a lot until you realize fire protection, walking, and strike all mean nothing...charge is a generic attack boost more or less...with a few exceptions of pure non-physical damage the game basically becomes "stronger units beat weaker ones" with very little subtelty....and the magic is all add to stats, summon, or do damage...nothing really interesting to add strategic complexity
Maybe MP is better, but it just seems to add more time inbetween the boring turns to me
I admit the graphics are nice...but the music all sounds too similar for me. Honestly I find AoW more micro as you need to do combat after combat to keep your stupid ai from killing your units, without much thought in each of the battles.

And although more man hours were probably put into AoW, you have to consider that with the large number of copies that sell compared to Dominions 2 the profit/man hour ratio is going to be signifigantly higher even if they are the same price. And all because people want to stare at the nymph.
And I also believe in paying for quality If somebody made a 6 hour long movie would you pay 3 times as much to watch that as a 2 hour long movie just because it took longer to make? I might pay more in the theory it offers more enjoyment, but not 3 times as much.

[Nerfix]

And AoW is generic on the top of all other things!
Dwarwes, Elves(URGH!) and Orcs... Blargh...
Dominions has creative, pseudo-historical nations, i realy like the idea and perhaps thats why Dominions "hit me so hard". And no alignment system! For gods sake, i HATE it when alignment system gets mixed in strategy games!

[licker]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
And AoW is generic on the top of all other things!
Dwarwes, Elves(URGH!) and Orcs... Blargh...
Dominions has creative, pseudo-historical nations, i realy like the idea and perhaps thats why Dominions "hit me so hard". And no alignment system! For gods sake, i HATE it when alignment system gets mixed in strategy games!

Hmm, perhaps AoW is generic in terms of the names of the races, but within the races are interesting units with interesting abilities. Unfortunately many of those units are not worth building, and many of the abilities don't quite work the way they should...

If you ask me Dom is also very 'generic', but the gameplay does a better job perhaps at covering that up. There is simply 'more' in Dom though, but realistically HI from one nation (or independant) isn't always *that* much different from HI from another source. The same for most units and commanders. Granted each nation has some unique units or commanders, but for the most part, I don't feel any greater attachment to them than I did to unique units in AoW (the Glutton is just a wicked cool creature, though somewhat underpowered for its level).

Well either you like one or the other better, or you try not to get too hung up on the outer shell and really enjoy the game play.

Heh, I had a looooong debate over on the AoW forums about this type of topic. It was more about how much immersion and suspention of disbelief mattered in playing a computer game. Obviously thats a personal matter, but for the sake of that discussion we were talking about game elements, and one side was trying to attack them using realism arguments. I just don't think that it makes sense to attack a game element you don't like simply because it 'isn't realistic'. Better to address how the game mechanic effects gameplay, rather than any individuals ability to rationalize its inclusion in the game in the first place

[LordArioch]

The problem is I find most of the aow abilities not interesting. Most of the decent units have no useful abilities except for the druid and entangle which is just WRONG. Entangle is far too powerful.

[licker]

Originally posted by LordArioch:
The problem is I find most of the aow abilities not interesting. Most of the decent units have no useful abilities except for the druid and entangle which is just WRONG. Entangle is far too powerful.

Are you talking about entange in AoW2 or in AoWSM? In 2 it is overpowered, in SM its not nearly so bad, mostly becasue the druids are more fragile.

Abilities that are interesting...
Swallow Whole
Strangle
Web
Grasp
Round Attack (though its a bit underpowered)
Whirlwind (only on one unit though )
Seduce/Dominate/Possess (and drain will by extention)
...

I dunno, there are some broken abilities, the resistances and immunities. Willpower is a bit funky as it pertains to surrender (depending on your point of view). Flyers are still wicked tough, if you know how to use them, but they've been significantly toned down from AoW 2. Overall AoW SM is much better balanced than AoW SM, and has added alot of new content (not all of it good maybe). I can agree that Dom is more satisfing on many levels than AoW is, but AoW is hardly devoid of 'intersting' abilities. The problem is more that only units with 'interesting' abilities are worth building, and even then some units are still a waste of resources. Thats an issue with the game design though, and to change it they'd have to fundamentally change how you go about creating your forces, something I wish they would add, but I doubt we'd see.

[Daynarr]

Can't help but notice that this thread has turned into AOW2 thread.