A pirates life for me...

[Suicide Junkie]

I think I have the problem now...

The design minister is definitely causing the freeze.

I believe that the minister is abusing the solar sails, by putting tons of 'em on a baseship... After 23 solar sails, the propulsion force exceeds 256, and a range check error occurs.

Sooo...

I'll have to take the solar sails and make them slower than engines, so they'll have to be smaller than their current size. Then we can see if it works.

EDIT: Yep, we have your game running smooth now.
Just copy the attached Components.txt over your old one, and you'll be set.
Basically, I just reduced the size of the solar sails to 7Kt, and scaled back their propulsion effect to 1,2,3 points.

It'll be the same game, but you'll have to put 3 new sails where you used to have one.

------------------
The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.0>-
-<Download V1.6>-
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6>-
-<SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage



[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 11 July 2001).]

[Suicide Junkie]

Pirates & Nomads V1.7 is now available! The differences between this and v1.6 are:
- AIs have been Patched! Yes, you can now use random AIs in your games!
- Ablative armor prices are now much more reasonable, and close to the price per hitpoints of shield generators. (as in P&N v2.1)
- Plasma Projection Armor, also from P&N v2.1 is included, as a bonus! This spans the gap between regular armor and ablative, by giving more hitpoints than standard armor, but faster repairs than Ablative!
-Emissive, Scattering and Stealth armor have been spread out more, so armor levels 4-6 aren't quite so jam-packed with components.

Also, Pirates & Nomads V2.1 is available!
It's got all the armor changes described above, and the DU AutoCannon, a machinegun-type weapon.
It is mostly minor changes as for as players will be concerned, but there is also hidden support for creating and playing Scenarios.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 and higher>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-<Play By Web>-
-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon)
-<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 26 July 2001).]

[DocShane]

As a relative newbie, please explain the difference between Versions 2.1 and 1.7. And please tell me its more than 0.4.

[Suicide Junkie]

Click the edit button on your Posts, and check the delete option (top left corner of the edit page)

quote:

---

As a relative newbie, please explain the difference between Versions 2.1 and 1.7. And please tell me its more than 0.4.

---

Both have similarities, since they are both Pirates&Nomads games, but the major difference is that any P&N v1.? has the standard SE4 style propulsion.
P&N v2 uses a totally new propulsion system, wherein the engine requirements change depending on the mass of the ship.

ie. A destroyer (300kT) is twice the size/mass of an escort (150kT). In classic SE4, 6 ion engines move both ships at 6 speed. In P&N v2, the escort would have 6 movement, and the destroyer would have only 3. The number of engines on your ships is limited to 42 (rather than 6) in v2, since that is the point where RangeCheckErrors will occur.

v2 also includes BattleMoons (10MT mobile base), ion/tachyon/null-space mines, and other extras.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 and higher>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-<Play By Web>-
-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon)
-<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[Troilus]

I've never posted here before, but I've come out of lurking finally. P&N is, IMO, one of the best mods out there. However, I'm not that enamoured of the new movement system in Version 2.x. Unfortunately, I can't seem to successfully download 1.7--every time I try, it seems to work, but when I go to extract it, I get the message "Not a valid ZIP archive"

Has anyone else had this problem? Can it be fixed? I really want to try P&N1.7.

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

---

I've never posted here before, but I've come out of lurking finally. P&N is, IMO, one of the best mods out there. However, I'm not that enamoured of the new movement system in Version 2.x. Unfortunately, I can't seem to successfully download 1.7--every time I try, it seems to work, but when I go to extract it, I get the message "Not a valid ZIP archive"

---

Just in case, I've uploaded P&N v1.7 again. The problem is probably related to the internet problems going around right now.

As for the propulsion system, what don't you like about it? Anything in particular?

What it is designed to do is;
-shift the optimum shipsize downwards. Bigger is better, but way more expensive. In some cases, you're best off with a stack of frigates or light cruisers rather than dreadnaughts.
-make bigger ships use more fuel while moving. One solar panel can keep an escort going indefinitely, but not a baseship. You get the same travel range on your ships, but big ships are harder to resupply.
-make movement a step closer to reality. Identical engines will make an Escort zoom through space, but hardly move a heavy Dreadnaught

If you are having trouble designing your ships, remember that there is no real limit to the amount of engines you can add. Keep an eye on the "movement" rating of your ship as you add engines, and don't expect to have the same power per ship as normal SE4. Everybody goes under the same rules, so don't worry that your LC seems woefully weak.

Also, research propulsion early; fuel usage drops, and the ContraTerrene, JacketedPhoton, and Quantum engines boost speed by 33%, 66% and 100% respectively.
When you use quantum engines, you need only half as many - the extra space can go into weapons.


EDIT: I've just downloaded the ZIP, and it works fine under WinZip 8.0. Try D/L'ing it now.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-<Play By Web>-
-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip>-
-<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 05 August 2001).]

[Troilus]

Woo-woo! Thanks, S_J, the new upload done did it.

Looking at the download you just put up, I can tell something was seriously munged with the old 1.7 download, 'cause that one was only 15KB compared to the new one's 430+KB. Bit of a difference, that.

As for what I don't like about the new movement system in 2.x, it just doesn't really fit in with my conception of what a space opera should be like. For me, it also seems to make the early stages of the game go too slowly--colonizers & pop. transports doing about 1mp/turn can take an unbearably long time to reach planets just one jump away from the homeworld. That translates into no outlying resupply facilities for my exploration ships, which slows down my initial planet-grabbing. Of course, all the AIs have the same problem, but the 2.x mod just doesn't fit well with my playing style.

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

---

As for what I don't like about the new movement system in 2.x, it just doesn't really fit in with my conception of what a space opera should be like. For me, it also seems to make the early stages of the game go too slowly--colonizers & pop. transports doing about 1mp/turn can take an unbearably long time to reach planets just one jump away from the homeworld. That translates into no outlying resupply facilities for my exploration ships, which slows down my initial planet-grabbing. Of course, all the AIs have the same problem, but the 2.x mod just doesn't fit well with my playing style.

---

How are you designing these colonizers? The AIs get 3-4 Movement on theirs. Just go with basic C&C, the colony and engines. Forget the extra cargo bay - you can use a pop transport later.
With colony, B/LS/CQ, and 6 ion engines, you get 3 movement points, and 10KT extra. Thats not so bad, original SE4 only lets them go 5. 3MP is still 0.4% the speed of light, 1200 KM/s, 4.3 million KM/H.

Also, with Propulsion 3, your engines's supply use is reduced to 6, which allows you to go 70% farther before you need resupply.
Propulsion 2 gives you 25% farther.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-<Play By Web>-
-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip>-
-<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[Devin D.Bass]

Wow! I just looked over some of the new modifications for the PN mod it looks great! However, I have some questions...

Is it compatiable with the TDM Mod Pack?
If not what are the differences or where can you refer me to learn more about the differences?

Can you give a little description on what makes this mod so great, especially AI wise.

Finally, can you either explain or direct me on what files I need to download the PN and how I should proceed.

Thanks

[Suicide Junkie]

Hey, funny you should ask... I just now finished repackaging the mod to make it easier to install.

As for your questions:
-P&N cannot be compatible with Devnull, since we both make changes to the same files. Both mods have incorporated ideas from the other, altered to fit in with the rest of the mod, of course.
If you know what you are doing, you could cut and paste sections from both mods in order to make a merged mod. It would likely have many balance issues which you would have to independently resolve.

- Um. no. (at least not a "little description")
There are a ton of things here, so I'll leave it to Last, and people don't have to read the whole thing

- OK, installing the mod!
Any zip for PiratesMod, or Pirates&Nomads with a Version number below 2.1b must be extracted into a modfolder.
1) Create a folder within SE4
2) Extract the zip into your new folder
3) Set SE4's path.txt to point to the new folder you created.

But for any new releases of P&N,
1) Extract directly to SE4, and the directory structure will be created automatically.
2) Use the "copy of path for P&N _____" text file to set your path.txt. (where "_____" is the Version of P&N you want to play)
You can overwrite path.txt with this file, or copy-paste the text, or use a mod picker utility.

Any of my new releases will be placed into an SE4 subfolder "suicidejunkiemods", and then into a sub-sub folder called "Pirated&NomadsModv2.1b" (or whatever the mod's name is). This should keep everything neatly organized.

------------------
As for AIs in particular; I have made no real serious changes to the AIs. Other people's AIs will work under my MOD, but you must first use my AI Patcher on them. (A twelve-click process, plus browsing through your harddrive using a standard windows "file-open" box)).
AIs will use some, but not all of the new components I have made. The ones they don't use have serious disadvantages that only humans will overcome. Most of these extra components are also intended for a role-playing style, rather than a down-and dirty war. Read: they look cool, and are effective for the first battle, but don't stand up to a long-term war, especially against humans.

Note: Some or most or maybe all of the TDM modpack AIs have been tweaked to go nuts building mineral miner facilities. Due to the increased value of radioactives in P&N2, they are no longer optimized. They will still be better than standard AIs under P&N2, and the standard AIs work just as well under Standard SE4 as under my MOD.

Everything below here is a complete summary of the changes of P&N! Reader Beware!

P&N V2.1b
-Includes everything from P&Nv 1.3 through 1.7 (see below)
- Propulsion requirements are now based on the mass of the ship! No more baseships zipping around with 2 escort class engines... double the mass, double the engines, go the same speed.
Be sure to keep a close eye on the speed stat while you design your ships, or you'll end up with an immobile ship
- Because of the engine requirements, radioactive resources are nearly as important as minerals! Be sure to balance your production when building facilities.
- Solar sails provide standard movement, not bonus, so they WILL stack. They are somewhat slower than engines, but do not waste supplies. (Sail Size is reduced to 7KT, to fix a minister bug)
- Phased Weapons have been deeply altered. Phased weapon tech gets you nothing by itself, but allows you to use phased Versions of your missile, torpedo and beam weapon techs. Research "missile weapons", "Torpedo Weapons", and "energy stream weapons" to get phased variants.
- All weapon accuracy bonuses are now shown as an ability. There is no more mystery, that WMG now says +30% accuracy when you click on it.
- "Living ships" racial trait, gives a smaller bridge and crew quarters component, and lifesupport components provide 1 repair/turn.
- Phased Planetary Shields! Woohoo! now you can protect those citizens better. Comes in 20K, 50K and 75K strength facilities, but requires shield tech levels as well.
- Mine Warheads come in Ion, Tachyon and NullSpace varieties, just laugh as your enemy's ships sit immobile and defenseless.
-Mental Singularity generator now has a Quad2shields damage type
-Ramming warheads have a Quad2Shields damage type
- BattleMoons! 10MegaTons of military might, convieniently impervious to psychic alliegiance subverters (not Boarding parties), and the size of a small moon! Core mounts boost weapon damage by 50 times (size by 25x). Try the 11,000 damage core-mount WMG - WOOoooOOM goodbye planet!
-Ablative Armor is now a reasonable price, and has been increased in size to 3KT. It ranges from 6 to 8 HP/KT... at best, this is equal to a phased-shield V, but takes a long time to repair.
-Plasma Projection Armor has replaced ablative armor as the top tech armor. It ranges from 8 to 14 HP/KT, 75% better than shields, but it takes forever to repair, since it comes in 1KT chunks. Thus, one repair bay III can only repair 112 hitpoints of PPA in one turn.
-Emissive, Steath and Scattering armor have been smeared out over the armor tech area, so they don't all get researched at the same time. They cover levels 2 through 8, rather than 4 to 6.
-DU autocannon. Just a 1/6th size DUC, but has a 5% accuracy bonus since you can "spray and pray"

A Summary of Changes in P&N V1.3 through V1.7
(vs. official SE4)
CompEnhancement
-Mod: Large/Heavy/Massive platform mounts add +1/+2/+3 range.
-New: Sattelite Siege Mount. 2x size, 1.5x damage, 5x cost, range +5, large sats only.

Components
-Mod: Rock/Ice/Gas colony modules require the "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Space Yard I/II/III require the "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Armor I/II/III provides 30/40/50 hitpoints.
-Mod: Emissive Armor I/II/III provides 100/110/120 hitpoints.
-Mod: Shields. Big changes.
"normal" shield generators provide the amount of hitpoints that "phased" shields used to. Normal shields are now only on odd tech levels, 1/3/5/7/9. Phased shields are available on even tech levels, and provide slightly more hitpoints than the previous normal (at techs 2/4/6/8/10). Normal and phased Shield generators I/II/III/IV/V provide 1/2/3/4/5 points of shield regeneration.
-Mod: Shield Regenerators. Available on even tech levels. Provide bonus shield points equivalent to one turn of regeneration.
eg. SRI gives 5 pts regen, now gives 5pts extra shields too.
-Mod: Supply storage reduced in size to 5kT, since engines store the same amount of supplies at 10kT.
-Mod: Small emissive armor I: provides 14 hitpoints.
-Add: Small emissive armor II: provides 20 hitpoints at armor tech lev 6
-Mod: Small shield generators: regenerate 10% of their max strength per turn.
(Unit shield regen is not currently supported by SE4, but when it is, this will start working)
-Mod: Point defence cannons have approx. 50% range, but slightly higher damage.
-Add: Point defence lasers equivalent to PDC, but have full range (upto 8) and approx. 50% damage.
-Mod: WaveMotionGun I/II/III has range boosted to 8/10/11
-Mod: Allegiance subverters require the "Normal" racial trait.
-Mod: Kamikaze warhead I/II/III do 60/120/180 damage.
-Add: Ablative Armor I/II/III/IV/V. 1kT, 8/10/12/13/14 hitpoints. Available for all vehicle types.
-Add: Machine Shop I/II. repairs one component per turn, 40/20 kT size.
-Add: Small space yard. Requires "Nomadic" or "Pirate" racial traits. Repairs one component/turn, builds with 300 resources/turn. 100kT size.
-Add: Tachyon Dampener. 30Kt, 100 hitpoints. Will absorb a fraction of weapon-destroying attacks.
-Add: Swashbucklers. Requires "Pirate" racial tech. 20kT, provides 12 boarding attack power. (note that one crew quarters provides 16 defence-destroy it or use two swashbuckler comps.)
-Add: Swashbuckler Pod. same as above, but 10kT, and available on fighters for "Pirate" or "Nomadic" racial techs.
-Add: Mineral Crystallizer, Hydroponics bay, radioactives collider. These are add-on facilities for the "Nomad" tech resource-generating ships and bases.
-Add: Supply storage I. 1kT, stores 100 supplies, available on fighters.
-Add: Quantum reactor. 20kT, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Tachyon sensors I/II/III. 40kT, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Small armor I/II/III. provides 4/5/6 hitpoints.
-Add: Solar Collectors I/II/III. provides 50/100/150 supplies per turn. 20kT. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Reduced solar sail. 12kT. provides 1 bonus movement. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech. No other tech requirement.
-Add: Small solar sail I/II/III. 5kT, provides 1/2/3 bonus movement. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" Racial tech.
-Add: Small Null-Space projector. 5kT, 4 damage at range 1, 4 reload, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" tech.
-Add: Space Yard. 200kT, repairs 5 per turn, builds with 2000 resources per turn. Requires "Nomadic" Racial Tech.
-Add: Reduced Shield Generator I/II/III. 10kT, provides 25/50/75 shield points, regenerates 2/4/6 points/turn. Provides 30/40/50 armor points. Requires shield tech level 3/6/9. Requires Armor tech 3/5/7.
-Add: Reduced Shield Regenerator I/II/III. 5kT, regenerates 2/3/4 points per turn. Requires shield tech level 5/7/10.
-Add: Heavy Shield Generator I/II/III. 200kT. generates 1500/2000/2500 shield points. Regenerates 50/75/100 points per turn. Requires shield tech level 11/12/13.
-Add: Hardened Bulkheads I/II/III. zerokT. Provides 25/30/35 hitpoints. Non-armor. Protects against (A)/(A)(S)/(A)(S)(W),
Where A=armor penetrators, S=shield destroyers, and W=weapon destroyers.

Facility
-Mod: (Mineral,organic,radioactive generators) I/II/III. Stores 1000/1250/1500 resources. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Monolith facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Research Facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" or"Nomad" racial tech.
-Mod: Intelligence Facil I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Gestation Vats I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Replicant Center I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Space Yard Facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Add: Massive planetary shield generator I/II/III. Requires ruin tech "MPSG". Requires shield tech lev 3/6/9. Provides 20K/50K/75K shield points. Very expensive.
-Mod: Temporal Space yard. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Solar Generator I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Add: Pirate's Intelligence Center. Provides 1000 intel points. Requires "Pirate" racial tech.
-Add: Slave Labour Camp. Generates 100 each resource (per star). Requires "Pirate" Racial tech.
-Add: Research Center. Generates 200 research points. Requires "Pirate" racial tech.
-Add: Space Yard Facility. Repairs 5 comps per turn, builds with 1000 resources per turn. Requires "Pirate" or "Nomad" racial techs.
-Add: Large Planetary Shield Generator I/II/III. Provides 5K/20K/50K. Requires shield tech level 14/15/16.

IntelProjects
-Mod: All offensive intel projects require "Normal" racial trait. Pirates & nomads only use defensive. Exceptions: Resource & tech theft.

Racial Traits
-Add: "Normal" racial tech. Allows colony ships, planet-based resource extractors.
-Add: "Pirate" racial tech. Allows access to specialty pirate techs.
a race with low maintenance is highly reccommended if you choose this.
-Add: "Nomadic" racial tech. Allows access to Nomadic techs.

Settings
Max systems = 255
Minimum resource generation = 500
planet percent value loss after death = 30
resource aptitude minimum percent = 25
maximum units/ships per sector = 10,000
maximum units/ships per player = 10,000

TechArea
Armor maximum level = 11
Shields maximum level = 16
"Normal", "Pirate", "Nomadic" tech areas

VehicleSize
-Add: Resource Base. Generates resources each turn. Production can be boosted with plug-in components. 600kT. +60% chance of being hit. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Resource Ship. Generates resources each turn. Production can be boosted with plug-in components. 300kT. Has a +50% chance of being hit. Requires "Nomadic" Racial tech.
-Add: Medium/Large/Heavy/Massive fighter. Size of 20/25/35/50 kT. Massive fighter requires 2 engines per move. Heavy/Massive have unlimited # of engines. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.

P&N v1.5

-CSM's now described as "chaped-charge chemical warheads"
-Heavy Bombardment Missiles (same as CSM) have nuclear warheads, and cause quad damage to shields from the EMP. They are double size, and have quad strength seekers.
-Added "crossover" techs which require two racial tech areas. Every 2-trait combination is here .
-Added Pirate Hoard facil which stores enourmous amounts of resources.

-Rebalanced the Hardened Mini-shield generators, so they more closely follow the shield & armor development.
-New Comp Enhancements. There are Cheap, Budget, Durable, Premium components. For non-weapons only, they affect hitpoints based on how much you want to spend for each part.
-Bugfix for the crossover techs.
-Replaced "Cheap" components with "normal"... the really low hitpoint stuff was getting hit Last, and that really screwed things up. The AIs will use normal internal components on their ships.

P&N v1.6
-Hardened mini shields have be adjusted again, with the higher levels having reduced shield regeneration abilities.
-Minor edits for typos.
-Components have been rearranged so they fit together better.
-Drop pods are now only available to races that have both organic and religious, since other races cannot make good (non-abusive) use of the pod.
-Solar Sails are now available in a "Solo" model, which does not require any normal engines to move your ship. There is a bug in SE4, which means that "normal" solar sails give zero movement if there are no engines aboard, the "Solo" sails get around this.

SE4 V1.7
-Cleaned up components file, now everything is in a nice order, with all of the armor types grouped together and stuff like that.
-Reduced the price for ablative armor to reasonable levels, and added plasma armor
-Spread out armor technologies.

Wow you're pretty devoted if you've read this far!

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-<Play By Web>-
-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip>-
-<8-bit Theater>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)