Official Vanilla vs CBM debate thread

[TheDemon]

Granted I wasn't around when CBM started up. But it seems to me the CBM changes these days are more drastic with each version. For example, unique gemgens, giving sea trolls to r'lyeh, the waterbreathing items major cost/paths reduction, half price blood summons, major changes in recruitables for MA argatha, dragon master buff. Upcoming: endgame diversity included, removal of major discount sites, nerfing of kelp forts.

I'm not saying any of this is a bad thing, and certainly there are many many CBM resources available these days including the majority of new guides. But it isn't like vanilla anymore.

[DonCorazon]

My take is that CB makes the game more fun. It does that by trying to make choices more interesting and in the case of gem generators, eliminating an aspect of the game that led to burdensome micromanagement. A noob is better off in a CB game because things are generally more balanced and so theoretically there are less bad choices. Not to mention it is always disheartening as a noob to survive into the late game and then learn about clamming when you start getting dumped on (oh wait was I supposed to be building clams every turn???)

The only reason a vanilla game makes sense to me is if you just have the manual to reference when you are learning and want to look things up. But even then, there are a lot of mistakes in the manual or things that have changed in patches so even that doesn’t make much sense.

CB foshizzle!

[KissBlade]

Vanilla is the original Halflife. CBM is Counterstrike.

[Finalgenesis]

I like the piecemeal edition CMB from Edi, it should be easy to control what mod to use in MP games? so you have the choice to activate gemgen if you want, disable easy water access ...etc

[sector24]

Just to add a slight counter point, I still play vanilla. But I play mostly SP, I can't commit the time to a competitive multiplayer game. I'm more interested in the story that unfolds between two epic nations of mythology, the "theme" of the game, and other Gandalfy things. I have the self discipline to not use the overpowered strategies against the computer, and I will do crazy things to give them a boost. For instance, give the AI a 3 year head start, limit myself to 1 commander per province I own, recruit all troop types in equal numbers rather than loading up on a nation's only good unit. Pretty much anything that either severely reduces micro or makes the game interesting or unusual.

I am not against CBM per se, but I would have to relearn everything and I'm not really that concerned with MP balance or some spells being useless, etc. If I had a nice uninterrupted 3 day weekend maybe I could get into CBM and I'd probably never look back but it hasn't happened yet.

[Finalgenesis]

Having just started CBM 3 days ago, I didn't see all too much that I need to adjust to (though I played vanilla for 2 weeks only before that).

Seens to be mostly cost change for unit and spells, spells moving up and down spell lvl charts and artifact cost / lvl, maybe some unit cap-only status change I haven't seen yet. Maybe I haven't tried long enough to note any significant changes, but I don't see any thematic difference so far, the race I played still have their theme intact, only a lot more spells/artifact become viable and making sense cost/lvl wise, all in all seems good so far.

[rdonj]

QM has tried very hard to keep the theme of the game intact for CBM. There are a lot of changes, but the nations still *feel* like the nations they're supposed to be. There have been a few that do alter that a bit (the biggest one I think being the UW breathing item change, to make getting underwater less painful for land nations).

Personally I was resistant at first to playing CBM, thinking it would require a lot of relearning. Then I got into a game that required it and realized that anything that worked in vanilla would work under CBM, too. The biggest initial draw for me was the pretenders. Many vanilla pretenders are overpriced for what they do, which really cuts down on which ones you can justify using. There have been a few changes in CBM that I question a bit, but overall I feel its had a very positive effect on the game, and especially the state of multiplayer.

[Finalgenesis]

agreed with the viable choices on pretender, and summons! too bad I use mostly rainbow humans (+1 path boost to most of them is great!). I'm really itching to try out vampire queen now with that cost fix though.

I especially like Edi's piecemeal edition CBM, to turn on and off portions that you like or not, maybe waterbreathing can be seperated out as its own piecemeal option.

[Festin]

Upcoming: endgame diversity included

Endgame Diversity may be a very nice mod, but I really hope it will not be included in CBM.

[Squirrelloid]

I think its too early to talk about including endgame diversity. Maybe in 6 months when its been playtested a bit more.