How turn Dominions from a niche game to an MMO

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

At the time of the discussions it wasnt a mass of small games that the need was felt for but large long-running games. So comparisons with the two main fan-based servers running now is useful info but isnt completely a fair comparison.

I don't follow it either. Are you saying the two main fan-based servers (yours and the llamaserver?) are for a mass of small games not for large long-running games?
While there are certainly small games on them, there are also plenty of large long-running games. I'm in one that started with all EA nations and started 6 months ago. All ages games have been hosted on the llamaserver, right? What qualifies as large and long-running and why is the distinction important for the server?

[LDiCesare]

I started a game this week-end and we're already around turn 20. I sometimes played blitz games which would last the whole evening. I would do none of this if I had to pay even 1 cent per turn. I like to own stuff and hate to rent, so I wouldn't play at all with the proposed scheme.

[thejeff]

I'm not really too concerned with the rent/own issue, though questions of what happens when/if Shrapnel shuts the servers down would get raised.

The whole experience ladder/special bonuses/buying bonuses thing just turns me off completely. I enjoy playing the game. I don't want special rewards to encourage me to play. Nor do I want to have to buy special bonuses to compete. I don't want to have to play lousy nations to unlock the special nations.

The other issue not brought up with the idea of only having an official server is mods. How would mods be approved for use and installed on the official server? Or maps for that matter?

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not sure of actual numbers on LLama's server. But Mose's did some very large games early on.
Mine has hosted single-age games of over 60 players, maps over 1000 provinces, and a couple that lasted more than a year. Obviously those do not represent the majority of Dom3 games. In early discussions the advantage of an official server for such games was brought up which might have entered into the decision making. Of course now we have more specific numbers on how many small games vs large games are usually created by this community which would help in a new decision making process. We also have more specific info on how much computer and bandwidth would be used.

As to their helping out... Illwinter offered free copies of the game to early server efforts. Johan personally tested, ironed out, and patched some needed changes. Ive been surprised when Tim Brooks (Shrapnels CEO for those that dont know) has posted using the word "official" in connection to fan-based wiki's. Not to mention fan-based documentation being included in official patches. All of that is rather rare. Of course it can all be portrayed in a harsh money-driven light but thats not my style. (and the title under my name gives me an excuse for it so ptthhhhh )

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Im not sure of actual numbers on LLama's server. But Mose's did some very large games early on.
Mine has hosted single-age games of over 60 players, maps over 1000 provinces, and a couple that lasted more than a year. Obviously those do not represent the majority of Dom3 games. In early discussions the advantage of an official server for such games was brought up which might have entered into the decision making. Of course now we have more specific numbers on how many small games vs large games are usually created by this community which would help in a new decision making process. We also have more specific info on how much computer and bandwidth would be used.

So? I still don't see where you're going with this. You had more data about large games than smaller ones. So what? Why does that make it unfair to look at llamaserver then wonder about the lack of an official server?

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont consider either of us to be a fair representation of what an official server would be put thru.
Particularly since an official games server by Shrapnel would not have been just a Dominions 3 server.

[Sombre]

What does that have to do with game size? How would that be problematic? An official server should be better and have more juice - if you're saying the greatly increased volume of games would be a problem, you're also therefore saying dom3 MP (and therefore dom3, realistically) would be wildly more popular with an official server.

[Gandalf Parker]

Possibly. Especially in hindsight. But it might have become the one-stop shopper for Dom3 games. It appears that most of LLama's games come from this forum while most of mine come from usenet. And most of Mose's I believe came from a french gaming forum which had a very active dom3 community..

SEIV's fan-run server PBW was one of the main considerations and example at the time of the main debate. Not to mention a dozen or so other Shrapnel games. Most of the games on Shrapnel support internet or pbem play. And a number of them support mods.

As you say, an official server should be better and have more juice. That point is not necessarily a "pro" in the consideration.

[Tollund]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

But it might have become the one-stop shopper for Dom3 games.

You say this as thought that would have been a problem.

As you say, an official server should be better and have more juice. That point is not necessarily a "pro" in the consideration.

If Shrapnel can't manage to scrape together a couple of hundred dollars to pay for a single computer to run a couple of hundred PBEM Dominions games, then they aren't worth much as a publisher.

Stop making excuses for them Gandalf. They supposedly aren't paying you to shill for them anymore.

[Foodstamp]

Stop making excuses for them Gandalf. They supposedly aren't paying you to shill for them anymore.

Are you even going to try to do a good job at hiding the fact that you are an alt account?