M10, Wolverine, Achilles Self-Propelled Guns

[cbo]

Originally Posted by Imp

If its misguided most tank museums get it wrong to,

It may be news to you, but museums gets lots of stuff wrong - often they just use the information available to you and me, primarily books, and they will, like any one else who has not had the time and opportunity to dig into the matter, get it wrong.

I would like to point out redcoat2's post, which clearly shows that the naming issue regarding the M10 is being dealt with in books, showing that not everyone is satisfied endlessly repeating the same old info.

Cross lists its full name correctly

He does?

but in the field it tended to be called Wolverine or M10 plus gun as in M10 17Pdr

..and this you know how?

This helped us poor Brits tell what it was as naming equipment by a number did not seem to work well with the Brit mind set I guess, its a what so many Ms

Actually, judging from manuals and wardiaries, the British were perfectly capable of using silly things like M10, SP, 17-pr M10 and such

Achillies implies its got a soft spot

And you know this how....?

Seems more likely that the DTD decided that self-propelled anti-tank guns should have names beginning with A - like Archer, Achilles and Avenger...

Wolverine its fast & American as in the animal, perhaps a bit cunning to.

There is nothing fast about an M10, nor does Wolverine fit what appears to be the DTDs naming conventions for SP anti-tank guns. Maybe there is a reason why it wasn't used in WWII....

cbo

[Imp]

We will leave it as you seem to be getting a bit heated & it is after all a game so as long as most people can recognise it thats all thats really required.

As to naming conventions Archer probably implies its a stand off weapon Achillies as in Greek God. And speed compared to the average Brit medium tank of the day yes it was fast. So was the Cromwell & some other rarer beasts

[DRG]

With you three going at it , it's like having Chucky back with the echo on.

Point 1--- where I to actually subscribe to the idea that all names of all units in the game should adhere to whatever it was referred to in the "official" field manuals I would, quite often, bump into the hard as bedrock unit name limit on more than a few occasions which would necessitate I deviate from the "official" to make it fit, once I do that a few times any pretext at keeping the game "pure" in this way goes right out the window

Point 2--- One problem we have had in this game was multiple OOB designers using varying naming conventions. We have database checking utilities to help us find things but when one unit or vehicle is named one way in one OOB, another way in a different OOB and yet a third way in a third OOB it makes finding them a PITA . In this case there are variations on M10 17 pdr and "Achilles" and that's just in the commonwealth nations. In the Italian OOB is "Semovente M10" ( there's that "National flavour" some people like and some don't ) and in the US OOB it's M10 (early) and M10 (late). I doubt very much that was the "official" way it was known in the US army at the time but for GAME purposes it helps players spot which was which ( not everyone's a historian ) This has been a problem in SPMBT where occasionally we've had to update some bit of info on some bit of Russian Kit ( for example....) then found someones decided in a couple of OOB's to use the "local" name for it or name it Txx in some and T-xx in others and that's how we end up with the same vehicle with two different stats. We've being struggling to correct all this since the Windows version were released

Point 3-- I will take all of this into consideration and there will be changes made to the next patch and I can promise you that someone is going to be unhappy no matter what I do but from my POV I need all these units with SOMETHING in common in their name so if I need to find all of my "M10's" I don't have to recall all the different nicknames they picked up in the intervening 60 odd years


Don

[Imp]

Ouuuuch

[Cross]

Originally Posted by DRG

Point 2--- One problem we have had in this game was multiple OOB designers using varying naming conventions.

I took a quick look at some other nations in the SP OOB, and I see what you mean:

UK: M10

US: M10 GMC

Canada: M10 3-Inch (30,43)
Canada: M10 17-pdr (44)
Canada: M10, SP 17-pdr (155)

France: M10 Wolverine !!! (82,83)

Don,

I genuninely don't mind what you decide. I naively thought I was making a helpful suggestion, particularly for newcomers.

If you do decide to change anything, you may want to look at the above OOBs if you want to make them consistent.

cheers,
Cross

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Cross

If you do decide to change anything, you may want to look at the above OOBs if you want to make them consistent.

cheers,
Cross

All this was done last week. All M10's and their derivatives in SPWW2 are now named "M10" , (whatever gun they are mounting)

No "wolverine" no "Achilles"

Don

[JohnHale]

Whatever they're called - it's so nice when you immoblise one with a burst of MG34 fire!

[gila]

Originally Posted by JohnHale

Whatever they're called - it's so nice when you immoblise one with a burst of MG34 fire!

Are you talking about the M10,or Imp,Cross and cbo?