Air Dome - Page 3

Agema · #21 April 24th, 2009, 06:11 AM

Mm. I think stacking air domes would have its uses (were it not an exploit).

When facing an air dome, fire cheap chaff 2-gem spells at the same time as a few big damage spells. 3 Murdering winters would cost about 100 gems and have just over 50% chance of no effect. However, cast two MWs and 15 chaff. That's still spending about 100 gems, but there's a very good chance the 2-gem spells will destroy the air dome before either MW hits.

ano · #22 April 24th, 2009, 07:24 AM

I'd like to know one thing: can Astral Window/Projection dispel an Air Dome and if can't (my experience says so) then I just don't understand, why.
Also, it seems that domes can't be dispelled with spells from items and moreover, these spells in most cases pass through them.
Any experience/thoughts here?

Psycho · #23 April 24th, 2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agema

Mm. I think stacking air domes would have its uses (were it not an exploit).

When facing an air dome, fire cheap chaff 2-gem spells at the same time as a few big damage spells. 3 Murdering winters would cost about 100 gems and have just over 50% chance of no effect. However, cast two MWs and 15 chaff. That's still spending about 100 gems, but there's a very good chance the 2-gem spells will destroy the air dome before either MW hits.

The problem with this is that you can't know the order in which your spells will be cast and your murdering winters can be cast before chaff spells and stopped by the dome.

MaxWilson · #24 April 24th, 2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho

The problem with this is that you can't know the order in which your spells will be cast and your murdering winters can be cast before chaff spells and stopped by the dome.

Well, you almost can know, since casting order is semi-deterministic based on UnitID. You can't know whether it will cast in descending or ascending order, but tossing in a few cheap 2-gem spells on both sides of your Murdering Winter guarantees you that half of the cheap spells will get cast before the expensive one.

If you don't know your UnitID ordering, you can have them ALL cast cheap 2-gem spells beforehand and write down the casting order. For instance, site search spells.

-Max

analytic_kernel · #25 April 24th, 2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agema

Mm. I think stacking air domes would have its uses (were it not an exploit).

I certainly viewed it as a nice feature after Executor described it. The description in the manual gives no indication that the behavior is a bug (or intended behavior). I looked in the bug shortlist, and it seems that the real problem is (emphasis added):

Quote:

SPELL Domes Domes of the same type stack, making it possible to erect any number of domes of the same type simultaneously. All domes must be broken during the same turn or none of them will go down, which means that layered air domes make a province virtually immune to any overland spells if stacked five times or more. Other domes have the same problem, just not 80% stopping power.

From a developer standpoint, it might be difficult to fix the bug without removing the "feature" completely. But, it's not clear that that is the case. I would lobby for retaining the feature, while fixing the bug in it, if not too inconvenient.

chrispedersen · #26 April 24th, 2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analytic_kernel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agema

Mm. I think stacking air domes would have its uses (were it not an exploit).

I certainly viewed it as a nice feature after Executor described it. The description in the manual gives no indication that the behavior is a bug (or intended behavior). I looked in the bug shortlist, and it seems that the real problem is (emphasis added):

Quote:

SPELL Domes Domes of the same type stack, making it possible to erect any number of domes of the same type simultaneously. All domes must be broken during the same turn or none of them will go down, which means that layered air domes make a province virtually immune to any overland spells if stacked five times or more. Other domes have the same problem, just not 80% stopping power.

From a developer standpoint, it might be difficult to fix the bug without removing the "feature" completely. But, it's not clear that that is the case. I would lobby for retaining the feature, while fixing the bug in it, if not too inconvenient.

Bug exploits are specifically banned. That makes casting multiple domes an exploit.

Gregstrom · #27 April 24th, 2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analytic_kernel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agema

Mm. I think stacking air domes would have its uses (were it not an exploit).

I certainly viewed it as a nice feature after Executor described it. The description in the manual gives no indication that the behavior is a bug (or intended behavior). I looked in the bug shortlist, and it seems that the real problem is (emphasis added):

Quote:

SPELL Domes Domes of the same type stack, making it possible to erect any number of domes of the same type simultaneously. All domes must be broken during the same turn or none of them will go down, which means that layered air domes make a province virtually immune to any overland spells if stacked five times or more. Other domes have the same problem, just not 80% stopping power.

From a developer standpoint, it might be difficult to fix the bug without removing the "feature" completely. But, it's not clear that that is the case. I would lobby for retaining the feature, while fixing the bug in it, if not too inconvenient.

If the bug shortlist is still saying that, it's out of date.

In 3.23 you can put multiple air domes up but incoming spells only meet one of them. Having extra ones only means you have something ready to step into the gap once the first one shatters. A spell that shatters one of your air domes doesn't encounter any further air domes before impacting.

Zeldor · #28 April 25th, 2009, 04:56 AM

ano:

Astral window/projection cannot be stopped by domes afaik. So it cannot break them.

About that stacking:
Stacked domes worked earlier, the fix made them not stack. That is if you pass one dome, it shatters and it doesn't check all air domes for same spell. Stacking is good against multiple spells still, but you can no longer get 99,99% protection.

analytic_kernel · #29 April 25th, 2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Bug exploits are specifically banned. That makes casting multiple domes an exploit.

I'm not suggesting that anyone exploit a bug. According to the description, which I assume Edi was referring to, the bug is that all of the domes come back, if one or more of them is left undestroyed - and that is undoubtedly an exploitable bug. (I did a search in the thread and saw no indication that this was fixed. Probably some testing is in order to verify this.)

I'm suggesting that the bug be fixed (if it hasn't already been), but that the feature of allowing spare domes of the same type be continued. How is having spare domes an exploit, provided they stay destroyed after they are destroyed?

analytic_kernel · #30 April 25th, 2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

In 3.23 you can put multiple air domes up but incoming spells only meet one of them. Having extra ones only means you have something ready to step into the gap once the first one shatters. A spell that shatters one of your air domes doesn't encounter any further air domes before impacting.

I understand that. That is not what we are talking about here.
Executor described behavior whereby only one dome of a given type is encountered per incoming spell. If that dome is shattered, then the next spell will encounter the next dome of that type, if there is one. The same spell that shattered the first dome will not encounter the next dome of that type, as you say. If someone has up 2 air domes, the probability of stopping a spell is not 0.96 but only 0.8. I get that, but unless I'm totally misunderstanding the OP, that is not what we are talking about.