Brainstorming Nation Strategies

[WraithLord]

Ahmm. good points WRT firestorm.
Perhaps earth attacking the Pans could be more effective, though this or any other possible counter doesn't take anything off this beautiful trick.

[Tolkien]

If it's already done, I apologize. I didn't read the thread.

LA Ulm
1) Blood Hunter rankings: Vampire Count-B1 Fortunetellers-Members of the Second Tier.
2) Members of the First and Second Tiers=Stealthy Communionable Death.
3) Communion, Communion, Communion and Communion some more. With communions, you can reach practically any battlefield spell you want (except water or some fusions). Just put a fortuneteller or a crystal-matrixed air/fire black priest (or a fire randomed Second Tier) or an astral random black priest and throw in masses of easily accessible communion slaves.
4) Iron Blizzard Spam is devastating.
5) Villains have +1 MR and are more useful against LA R'lyeh then Rangers (RoF>AP in this case), with Sermons of Courage to bump up that horrid morale.
6) Wolfherds summon wolves: which are much more mobile then mapmove 1 thralls.
6) Halberdiers are great during seiges, and sneak in vampire counts and wolfherds to provide chaff to repair the walls. If need be, sneak them out.
7) Throw vampire hordes at anyone in your dominion; with the proper buffs. Darkness, Rush of Strength, Army of Lead/Gold, Anti-magic, Will of the Fates, etc.
8) Black Heart a Vampire Count/Lord. Voila! A deadly, immortal assassin that can really annoy opponents in your dominion.
9) You have great national troops that can steamroll most indys with decent numbers.
10) Did I mention slapping on a Scepter of Authority and Crown of Command on a Ranger Captain and throwing an army of rangers raiding, with some First Tiers for anti-mindhunt?

[Festin]

Great tread Also, I think there is nothing wrong with having several posts about same nation - after all, everyone has their own ideas.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Ahmm. good points WRT firestorm.
Perhaps earth attacking the Pans could be more effective, though this or any other possible counter doesn't take anything off this beautiful trick.

A Pan set with swarm, swarm, swarm, swarm, swarm - let alone other combinations.. will defeat earth attack, and spend less gems than you spent in the summoning.

[WraithLord]

You're right of course but usually what happens is that first turn you throw a bunch of EAs at someone he'll be caught unprepared and the earth elementals will kill his Pans.
2nd time around he will be prepared so you come with something else. For example, casting 3EAs on the same Pan will kill him unless you put 15 or more N gems on him (scripted as you described). But its possible to defend against that as well of course - Its like a game of chess in which each side tries to best guess the other's plans and then counter them.

The rule thumb is everything can be assassinated. The question is what's the cost of the assassination?- Is it worth the price or not?- clearly that depends on the context.

[Jarkko]

The beauty with sleeping maenads is that there does not need to be any commanders present, altough supply may become a problem. But then again, it is just maenads who get diseased, and they still keep on repairing the walls until they starve to death. The maenads just keep on repairing the walls. Of course they will rout the first thing when the castle is stormed (with no commanders present) but who cares?

OTOH, if the opponent is able to take a fort with 400 maenads inside, without having to siege it for 10+ turns, you are screwed anyway And the opponent can't just leave the fort with a screening force, because you might have sneaking pans around (even tough there were none to be found by your assassin last turn, it doesn't mean there are not 15 pans there this turn), and a few hundred berserk maenads with proper buffs will rip apart any unprepared forces (like say, a few dozen indy chaff), and then the opponent has to start the process from start again.

The sleeping maenads are not a winning tool. They are a tool to drive your opponent nuts while also buying you time

And now I think it will be best to stop with this (or start another thread) before derailing this totally to pans Incidently, does anybody have any neat strategies for EA C'tis (in addition to the usual smiters + skelly spammers = profit)? I could use new ideas, and pretty fast too

[Gandalf Parker]

PANGAEA:
Nice thing about Maenads is that it frees you to build stealth armies. Stealth leaders, stealth infantry, stealth archers, stealth priests, stealth mages. Not to mention flying stealth scouts. The ability to place a large army soon in the game at the perimeter of a warzone watching for a weakness. Perferably on the far side away from your real position. Take a province, sink lots of PD into it, start building it up (be sure to re-hide the main force). If he does invest in retaking it then he isnt investing near you. If he doesnt retake it then you can get builders there to create a powerful secondary position. Keep your stealth armies moving, taking, hiding. Never use them in holding. If it looks like it will get retaiken right away then tax it to death while you can. Force him to invest more in PD than he normally would.

Carrion Dragon surrounded by maenads can be powerful. Take at least 2 death and 3 nature to make use the the national spells. Add blood to be able to create Black Hearts for those kickass Pan assassin/converters. Taking 4 death isnt a bad idea since causing 100% afflictions works well with hit-n-run tactics. Not to mention giving your Carrion Dragon Fear+12

Lord of the Wild with same magics. Personally I like 4d/4n/4b. Remember you can get away with going turmoil and sloth. Quickly get to Awaken Sleeper in order to move your huge armies.

Gandalf Parker
--
There once was a cocky guy
thought Pangaea would be fun to try
He amassed quite a force
and marched them all forth
but half of them stealthed and watched the rest die

[Tolkien]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

OTOH, if the opponent is able to take a fort with 400 maenads inside, without having to siege it for 10+ turns, you are screwed anyway

Or they're an Earth Heavy nation and can crumble/siege golem spam.

[chrispedersen]

Gandalf Parker
--
There once was a cocky guy
thought Pangaea would be fun to try
He amassed quite a force
and marched them all forth
but half of them stealthed and watched the rest die

There once was a cockier guy
Who Pangaeia decided to try
He flew them all out
led by Harpy and Scout
but half of them stealthed -- the rest died!

[WraithLord]

Jotunheim:

-> Bless. E10N8, E9N9 or E6N6 if you want a cheaper bless.
-> Skratti rule. With good bless give them the shroud and watch out for low MR - their Achilles heel.
-> Vaettis. Take G3 so that they don't die all over from old age. Very good for various tasks.
-> Gygja thugs.
-> Push strong into blood.
-> Rush. Strong bless advantage diminishes with game progress. Be aggressive early on to utilize it.
As a rule of thumb don't rush strong astral nations. Astral has lot's of counters to small elite armies.
-> cold 3.
-> Communions. Yes, you have both astral and blood and they can be intermixed. Gygja communion masters.
-> Use stealth. You have the Skratti wolf form and all the Vaettis are stealthy. An astral Vaetti can be used to protect from mind hunts.