Wishlist: Assassinations

[Mithras]

Don't forget about patrolling and magic domes. Patrolling and high pd should clear out mundane assinations pretty well, especially if as you imply the mages that are getting assinated are with big armies. If your moving your armies the assisnations shouldn't be able to keep up, if your staying in one province then you might as well use that big army for something. If you don't have a big army then unscript the army wide buffs for something better at taking out assasins.

If its spell assasins that are bothering you then invest in some domes. Go for one that absorbs multiple hits or strikes back at the enemy, assasin spells are usually high level enough to make it worth hurting the caster.

Its all about having the right counters.

[thejeff]

A couple points:
I think gem use in assassinations follows the same rules gem use anywhere else does: if the enemy is a sufficient threat gems may be used. I'm pretty sure mages always count as sufficient threat.

Fatigue does drop by resting. 5 pts back any turn you don't act. I use it scripting self-buffing thugs. Wouldn't bother with other mages, since I'd rather burn fatigue casting scripted spells than whatever the AI picks.

[Dorjan]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

Their fatigue doesn't drop by resting, unless they're already over 100 fatigue, in which case the scripting makes no difference. Or unless they've got an earth bless.

I'm on about top mages (the lower ones can die to assasins all the time, I don't care) they will have revig items always (normally around 10)

Originally Posted by llamabeast

Who do you play MP with? I think assassinations are generally fairly rare in MP because in order to make a decent assassin you have to put a fair bit of effort in, which is probably more than the cost you'll cause to your opponent by killing a mage or two. There are exceptions of course, and things like Earth Attack are definitely common, although obviously they're pretty late game.

Earth attack is very common. Which is 99% effective. And late game (turn 60ish on high research?) maybe, but I still think it makes the game very annoying if not unplayable when your best heroes are dieing to a random elemental, not becasue they got stomped or punched. Rather becasue they ran? I just think that is unfair.

Give an assasin a frost brand and whatever armour is best against the element your opponant best uses and you'll find them easily killing two. Little cost, high gain imo. Once they get smart then you've just taken out 5xmages worth of troops out of their army in paranoia. Whats worse is if you make them do that with basic assasins then send an earth elemental at their top mages (or their army) they are sure to run becasue of their new bodyguards

[Dorjan]

Originally Posted by Mithras

Don't forget about patrolling and magic domes. Patrolling and high pd should clear out mundane assinations pretty well, especially if as you imply the mages that are getting assinated are with big armies. If your moving your armies the assisnations shouldn't be able to keep up, if your staying in one province then you might as well use that big army for something. If you don't have a big army then unscript the army wide buffs for something better at taking out assasins.

If its spell assasins that are bothering you then invest in some domes. Go for one that absorbs multiple hits or strikes back at the enemy, assasin spells are usually high level enough to make it worth hurting the caster.

Its all about having the right counters.

Lets go for that shall we?

Moving army, (can't have domes since you are moving away and maybe no lab in new provence) so yeah, you avoid normal assasins but the magic ones get you.

Is dom3 meant to favour the defensive player? Just sit back, build domes and splatter your enemy with spells until they turn on auto AI?

[Mithras]

From what you describe I think investing in cheap ways to prevent assisnations from occuring is a good idea. Dome all your mage concentrations, and places where you expect your mages to move to, (a couple of gems and 500 gold for a lab is cheap in the late game) and put your pd up in your fortress/have idle armies of chaff patrol. Its not a hundred percent effective but if you invest in vast amounts of pd all over your nation then you only have to worry about the elementals, which you can tailor script your mages for the earth elementals.

[Mithras]

How many 5 earth mages does your enemy have? Chances are not many.
Taking this into acount what can you do about them?
Get a fire mage to put up a dome of flaming death on an area which is often attacked (make a target out of it) a couple of earth attacks come in and the mages get fried. Your aponent decides they're better off using their mages to cast earthquake.

If you scout around a bit you can find the locations of these earth mages now spam seaking arrow/ mind hunt depending on your enemy and hey they don't have earth mages anymore.

Or you can just gear up your mages like you said. Or get a few large body guards that wont be trampled. Hey look a niche use for the iron dragon !

You can also recruit loads of week comanders as alternative targets. Killing onme indy comander is not a good way to use a 5E mage.

All in all I'd call earth attacks more of an annoyance than game breaking. And I bet astral corruption would really annoy you

Oh and experiment with SCs. When you get something that eats earth attacks for appertizers before chomping through a good sized, mage supported army, and that can teleport, come back and say that about defensive strategies. They of course have their own counters.

[Dorjan]

Some good ideas there!

The issue is with the people that can defeat earth elementals, not the ones that can't... my top mages need to be set to be able to kill other things during the battle and without bodyguards during the battle they will be vunl to flying troops...

Swings and round abouts I know, I just think that the way things are atm makes it stupid. I don't mind loosing men to a good assasin, I think it's great! GJ! But when someone runs from an assasin to die and doesn't even give it a shot makes me feel angry and not wanting to play (game breaking).

Everything else about dom3 plays how you expect. Why not this? There must be better options (like paralizing them in fear for failed moarle) instead of running and dieing so at least I can see it happening...

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by thejeff

A couple points:
I think gem use in assassinations follows the same rules gem use anywhere else does: if the enemy is a sufficient threat gems may be used. I'm pretty sure mages always count as sufficient threat.

Fatigue does drop by resting. 5 pts back any turn you don't act. I use it scripting self-buffing thugs. Wouldn't bother with other mages, since I'd rather burn fatigue casting scripted spells than whatever the AI picks.

Great post, but... wow, really? Never heard about that.

[Dorjan]

Another thing to add to this (just happened).

A hero SC with a bow, fires then RUNS AT THE ELEMENTAL and gets trampled.

How can you say thats not broken? In a normal fight they stay at range and keeps firing!

[Dorjan]

[quote=chrispedersen;677595]

Originally Posted by Loren

Again, the problem is that assassination is overall not an effective technique.

Maybe so, but this isn't about effectiveness of it, i'm saying it spoils the game. When you see someone not acting... it's just.. stupid!

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

If you change the scripting to have battlefield scripts and assassinations scripts - the balance shifts even *more* in the opposite direction.

I agree, don't do that. However exclude certain things from the list like I stated. It would prevent silly things from happening and making me wanna uninstall the bloody game :

[quote=chrispedersen;677595]

Originally Posted by Loren

In certain circles the moral is: surprise kills. And regardless of the mages rank and power, I should like there to be some possibility of them being assassinated.

Yeah, thats cool. But why make them "run" and die. Why don't you paralize them for a few turns in "fear" or something. At least then you see them getting stomped, I'd rather that then just running away or running towards with a ranged weapon.