Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

[Twan]

MA Ermor 4 5 4 4 3 (in early game Ermor has to use a lot of commanders to reanimate ; and the kind of armies Ermor has become weaker in late game + 8hp mages are easily killed by mass spells ; so I only give a maximum note for MA Ermor in midgame, even if the nation is always strong)
MA Pythium 3 4 5 3 2 (troops are expensive for early expansion, then Pythium rocks, best defensive battle magic for armies, angels summons etc.. make it one of the best endgame nations)
MA Man 4 1/3 2/4 5 3 (longbowmen/knights are excellent against both indies and AIs, but a weak army base against players as it's easy to counter them with decoys, I'd give MP midgame a 1 but a 3 against AIs ; as well in SP access to the fog warriors + rain of stones combo + air queen thugs are sufficient to make Man an AI destroying nation in late stage, but not at all to make it good against players)
MA Ulm 2 1 2 3 1 (one of the weakest nations in midgame due to poor magic, for early game troops are correct but not that good, and vulnerable against tramplers ; if Ulm happen to reach late game and access to good thugs/SCs, forge bonus may be a consequent economical advantage, so I give it a little better note for LG)
MA Marignon 3 2 3 3 4 (correct troops for expansion, lack of thugs or magical economy forge in midgame, angels and astral magic make endgame potential rather good)
MA Mictlan 4 4 3 2 3 (sacred for expansion, good magical diversity for midgame, but not the best paths for late stage)
MA TC 2 3 4 2 3 (mage based nation, troops are not great, profits a lot from high level research)
MA Mackaka 3 4 3 3 3 (good sacreds for early stage but a little too expensive, then fire and earth magic are very powerful in midgame, and the nation also has good research and access to fetish hoarding ; but in endgame the lack of astral is painful, having death is good but not sufficient)
MA Agartha 1 3 2 2 2 (fine knowledge of the national summons -some very interesting some extremely niche- is needed so I give it a bad note for learning/use ; the nation can be rather good in midgame and isn't completely desesperate in late game if they are well used)
MA Abysia 3 4 3 2 3 (good early expansion with heat aura troops, then don't underestimate midgame power of fire magic, or late game power of demons -but lack of other tricks is a problem- bad learning note due to age problems)
MA Caelum 4 3 3 3 (mammoths make for a powerful early games, mages for a rather good mid game and medium late potential -access to some of the best paths but with low levels)
MA C'tis 2 4 4 2 2 (troops aren't very good, but having mages as good as marshmasters recruitable everywhere, powerful death and access to astral + clams forging, qualifies Ct'is as a strong nation for mid-late game ; vulnerability to cold and dominion killing your indies recruit make the nation rather hard to play)
MA Pangaea 4 5 3 3 3 (good early game with a bless, excellent midgame with hordes of freespawns, high hp troops and some thugable chassis, medium late game, maenads are easily killed by mass spells and sacreds no longer important, but earth and blood aren't bad path)
MA Vanhiem 5 4 2 3 4 (bless nation, become weaker over time, blood-air is not that interesting as the combo don't give uniques like blood-fire or water)
MA Jotunhiem 4 4 4 4 3 (like Utgard except a little weaker in midgame due to price of mages)
MA Bandar Log (never played no opinion)
MA Shinuyama (never played no opinion)
MA Ashod (not sufficiently played to have an opinion, except national summons qualify for a 4 or more in late game)
MA Atlantis 4 2 3+ 5 3 (sea tramplers and access to the extremely good dagon chassis are excellent for expansion, but the price of non capitol mages is an handicap in midgame ; in late game correct astral levels and mages with sufficient hp to endure mass spells make Atlantis an above average nation ; excellent note for sp learning as AIs are unable to defeat sea nations, and Atlantis is the best to expand in both sea and lands)
MA R'yeh 3 4 5 3 3 (high level astral mages with high hp make the nation insanely good in late stage)
MA Oceania 5 2 3 4 4 (excellent for destroying other sea nations, then globally lacking, but massive clam hoarding can make it very powerful in late stage if diversification to astral can be achieved)
MA Eriu 3 3 2 4 2 (medium nation, without the good paths for late game, rather easy to play against AIs unable to counter glamour)

[Zeldor]

I would give MA T'ien Ch'i rather 2 3 3 2 2 [or even 1 for MP micro]. The only SCs and thugs they can really access are Golems. I think that their mages are hardest to script. IF you want to make use of research you need to use communions as all your mages are low level. You have insane amount of randoms on your mages. For some of them you need master matrixes. You need to do a lot of booster allocating and swapping.

[JimMorrison]

Thanks for the support, Kris! <3


Originally I had wanted to score on 1-10 for this, specifically so that LA Ermor/R'lyeh could have some 10's, and then most of the other powerhouses would really be in the 8-9 range. I was convinced to allow it all to come out in the averaging, and just simplify the rating system to encourage people to take the time to post.

Anyway, good work so far guys, I really appreciate it. If any of you are dragging your heels, remember, it may take you 15-20 minutes to post, it's going to take me hours to organize the data. If you want to just get your favorites down first, that's fine, you can edit your post later if you wish, I'm not doing anything with the numbers just yet.

[quantum_mechani]

Twan said:

Strange to give a better note for Arco's midgame than early or late. Especially a 5.

Arco is clearly weaker between the moment when elephants become obsolete (because ennemies use MR spells, thugs etc) and when the level 8-9 extremely powerful astral spells are researched (and diversification to death or other thugs summons achieved).

I think it all hinges on where you call midgame. The elephants give them early stregth, but they really hit the peak of their power when they get mind hunt/soul slay/evocations. Normally, this power continues into the late game, but they have a fairly serious weakness there of fragile mages.

[Twan]

Hum yes I translated early game by expansion/rush (with say level 3 max magic researched). Midgame by when you have several schools at levels 4-6. Late when you have several levels 7-9. Also I value more mass astral spells than midgame ones, even if the two are powerful, my Arco's peak would be just in the beginning of late stage, when first level 8-9 battle magic (will of the fates, master enslave) is reached.

But my interpretation is probably not the best as I feel like a note is missing for after.

The end game (when you and all your opponents have most schools at level 9 and access to numerous tartarians able to cast spells like rain of stones) is very different than the beginning of late game, as human mages lose most of their offensive power. On the other hand calling "midgame" all the game between level 4-5 magic and the moment all magic is researched, would make hard to differenciate nations.

[JimMorrison]

Well the way I looked at it is this (and maybe I should clarify in the first post) - early game is mostly indies, unless it is a nation that can do viable fast rushes in the first year, then you score accordingly. Mid game, you've researched first few key schools, cons 4 for blood nations, maybe fire arrows, mistform for SCs, whatever, the point being you've only accessed the first 2-3 pivotal spells for your strat, and you may be going into a real war at this point. Late game is not end game for sure, but would be the point where people are getting to level 9 in 1-2 schools (depending on strat and magic scale), and are starting to deploy late game summons, and introduce powerful rituals and whatnot, though such things are not saturated, nor commonplace.

[JimMorrison]

I really appreciate the posts so far, but I'm going to keep this thread up top for a few more days at least. If you see the potential of this resource, poke your friends, they can post as few or as many ratings as they like, as long as they feed the beast.

[JimMorrison]

Rate some nations, you lazy sots!

I'm content to lift the restrictions on # of ratings. Just give me some. It's hardly a compiled average if most nations are only rated by 1-2 people..... Doing this will save you time and effort explaining to new players which nations to try in order to learn the game faster. Also, it will entertain you, I PROMISE. <3

[sansanjuan]

JM,
I've enjoyed reading the posts but don't have enough nations under my belt for useful rating context. Interesting thread though.
-SSJ

[MaxWilson]

Okay, in that case, with the understanding that the late-game numbers are quite fuzzy:

EA Agartha 2 4 3 3 ? (Have to learn national summons to play well.)
EA Ulm 4 3 3 4 ? (Piles and piles of excellent troops, have to learn to forge earth boots.)
EA Helheim 5 4 3 3 ? (Easy to learn bless strats for the early game, harder to learn to use thugs and air magic. Poor research.)
EA Niefelheim 5 4 4 4 ? (Easy to learn bless strats and skinshifters.)
EA C'tis 4 4 5 4 ? (Excellent troops, pretty to learn some options for death mages. Have to learn to diversify in late game.)
EA Yomi 4 2 4 2 ? (Oni Kings are easy, have to learn to use everything else.)
EA Marverni 3 4 4 2 ? (Not everyone sees the potential at first. Read Baalz's guide for pointers.)
EA Ermor 4 4 4 4 ? (Excellent troops + battlemages, like C'tis but with better diversity.)
EA Lanka 5 5 5 4 ? (Early game bless is simple, blood magic more complicated later on.)

MA Ashdod 5 5 5 4 ? (Excellent battlemages, good troops and PD.)

LA Agartha 4 5 4 3 ? (Have to learn effective expansion strategies, and how to use national summons. Poor mapmove except for summons.)

The average is high because I've mostly played with nations that seem strong and/or interesting to me, and I didn't feel qualified to rate those that I haven't played with. Even the nations that are rated low could be quite powerful in the endgame if you have a good gem/gold economy or branch out to other magic paths via your pretender/certain indies.

-Max

Edit: Revised Helheim's rating downward. Revised EA Ermor early-game rating downward. Revised Ulm slightly upward.