Opinions on Caelum (MA and other)

[quantum_mechani]

Atlantis is not that weak, deep seers are an excellent value, and kings of the deep offer versatility and buffness. Also, well deployed lobsters are not to be underestimated when expanding or in an early war.

In the longer term they are actually better much better at fighting on land than Oceania. Oceania has almost nothing as far as battle magic, while Atlantis can do serious damage with falling frost.

All that said, they have my vote was one of the nations with the least flavor, so some extra spice for them wouldn't be amiss I think.

[Jazzepi]

Meglobob said:

Come to think about it Jazzepi your probably right about this...

Silly Meglobob...

My pretender for that game was an astral fountain. That was the last game I played the "uber-scales". I'm glad I tried it, it just isn't effective is the problem. That era of man needs pretender magic diversity. I did enjoy rushing Argatha with a ton of A3 hags.

Jazzepi

[Amhazair]

Kristoffer O said:
Wonder if C'tis and Pangaea feels the same. Did they get lucky, or did they get stong by themselves

Obviously it was just my amazing tactical and strategic superiority that got me in the position I'm in now.

More seriously, I wouldn't say I've had any amazingly unbelievable luck, but my starting position was strong (corner of the map, but not tucked so far into the corner that other nations could cut me off easily), and I did find an enchantress province, giving me minor access to all paths I lacked (except blood), so I can't complain either.

On a different note, while I don't think MA C'tis is particularly strong (not particularly weak either mind you), I do find them really fun to play. The swampy flavor is nice, and the Miasma adds a unique twist, with some serious advantages and drawbacks to consider.

[Kristoffer O]

Yes, I'd say starting position is very important. Coupled with some nice early sites and an exploitable enemy and you're set.

There is a definite need for more wraparound maps.

[HoneyBadger]

I'd love to see "wraparound" as a random map feature. Infact, I'm surprised it wasn't included. Maybe it's a headache to code, or not a priority, I don't know.

Caelum's never impressed me as much as I wish it would when I play it, even Eagle Kings. I guess they just don't fit too well with my style of play, which is fine. It would be nice to see some specifically Caelum undead units, if only for the theme/graphics, but to me, even if they have raw power in the form of spells, they seem a bit lacking in interest.

I mean, to me there's something disturbing about a nation of flying birdmen with all sorts of elemental powers, eldritch origins, and magical armaments, who's sacred unit is just a regular joe trudging across the battlefield so he can whack some other guy with a sword.

Aside from that minor stuff, which is all personal taste anyway, it's really a well-designed group of nations that's fun in part because their are several good and obvious strategies for them at every age, and at the same time, plenty you can do with them outside of what's been well-established.

[Jazzepi]

Kristoffer O said:
Yes, I'd say starting position is very important. Coupled with some nice early sites and an exploitable enemy and you're set.

There is a definite need for more wraparound maps.

Yes, please More wrap arounds.

Jazzepi

[Gandalf Parker]

The problem I see with the impression of strength in Caelum is that its a hard nation to find anyone playing it AS Caelum. Many people tend to ignore the basic thematic advantages of the nation and play it was they would a Civ4 nation. Of course, in that mode its pretty weak.

Some boosts to make it better able to make use of flying armies, and cold, might help. But it would be hard to do that without making it too powerful for those who are properly playing it.

[thejeff]

It's widely acknowledged as one of the best raiding nations. That seems a fairly thematic use. But isn't enough to make it too powerful. At some point you actually have to take and hold land.

The problem with relying on the flying armies is that the flying troops are weak. Good archers, but there are cheaper good archers and archers are easy to counter. There are cheap counters to both cold and lightning, at least for thugs, that counter most of what the mages can do.

If there's a proper, thematic way to play it, that will actually work in a regular MP game (not a tiny blitz map, but not one of your huge maps either) then it shouldn't be boosted. Can you suggest one?

[Warhammer]

What I would love to do with EA Caelum is take some Eagle Kings, kit them out, put them on orders to attack archers or attack rear, and then spam Shock Wave or something similar. I think that would be cool, but I am too afraid to potentially waste such an expensive unit that way.

[Saint_Dude]

With an E9 bless and a few buffs, Eagle Kings can be very effective when used this way. They don't really need to be kitted out, although reinvigoration items are useful.