Glamour post 3.08

[Sombre]

3.08 was supposed to make a hail of arrows effective against glamour and thus offer more nations a less extreme (in terms of design points, strat, overall cost) counter to vans.

Clearly Jazzepi feels mislead - saying "well archers aren't the counter to heavy cavalry" just demonstrates that the van nerf might not have changed them much, since the big alteration was for missiles vs glamour.

[Jazzepi]

Sombre said exactly what was on my mind.

Jazzepi

[Saint_Dude]

Shovah32 said:
in the nuance game its currently turn 10 and im already sitting on the bandar log capitol, having conquered all their other provinces with my legionaires supported by a couple of blessed shadow vestals(who did very little of the work).

As the bandar player in nuance, it sure looked as though there were more than a couple of blessed shadow vestals involved in the attack (39 to be exact - 32 in the battle at the bandar capital).

But Shovah32's point is a good one. Many nations are capable of putting together a brutal blitz with blessed troops, not just the vans.

[Jazzepi]

I'm pretty sure you can build priests to banish shadow vestals as they're undead (correct me if I'm wrong). Since every one of Argatha's casters are priests, I think that's a pretty simple counter. Most everyone has access to priests in their capital.

This is so unlike, say, Vans.

Jazzepi

[Saint_Dude]

Shadow vestals with a f9/s9 bless. Twist of fate and MR 19? Good luck with the banishment. Bandar log has access to level 1 priests. ooh . . . I am sure those vestals were shaking in their boots.

Shadow vestals are also a lot cheaper than van (in terms of both gold and resources) so there are a lot more to fight.

The counter for vestals with a bless like this is the same as for the vans - area effect magic. If you try to get by with priests, chaff, massed archers, and the like, you are going to have disappointing results.

In short they are every bit as likely to steamroll MA Agartha as Vanheim is. At least early on. Of course that isn't saying much, as most nations have an easy time picking on MA Agartha in the early game.

[Jazzepi]

Level 1 priests are just as effective as level 5 priests at spamming banishment.

Jazzepi

[sum1lost]

Jazzepi said:
Level 1 priests are just as effective as level 5 priests at spamming banishment.

Jazzepi

But are less effective against a high mr, since magic levels impact penetration, if I remember correctly.

horay 4 listening.

[Jazzepi]

That, I did not know. I read on here that the banishment was exactly the same.

Jazzepi

[Saxon]

A voice from the single player crowd here.

If the Vans are still trashing large forces of mixed troops, they are still going to dominate the single player maps. This leads to the same �Vans vs human player� end games that I seemed to run into all the time. Linked to this, I stopped having Vanheim in my single player games a while back, but I have noticed that Trig�o�how�doyou�spellit seem to end up beating other AI regularly.

It appears that the AI has a real problem with glamour.

In any case, I will put Vanheim back in the game and see what happens.

My other point is to support Jazzepi. If 150 archers do not at least remove some glamour, there is a bit of a problem. These are not SC, they are recruitable troops. I don�t expect the archers to win, but they should be able to at least scratch the enemy. It wasn�t high Air blessing these Vans had, it was Water and Earth.

[vfb]

Not only that, Banishment is AoE 2+(2* H level), Dam 3+(2* H level). According to the spell spreadsheet, not the manual, it's even range 15 + (5* H level).

H1: AoE 4, Dam 5, range 20
H2: AoE 6, Dam 7, range 25
H3: AoE 8, Dam 9, MR-1, range 30
H4: AoE 10, Dam 11, MR-1, range 35
H5: AoE 12, Dam 13, MR-2, range 40

(Extra bonus points if you go to the all effort of making an H5 priest just to cast banishment )