use of bane lords

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Sword of Swiftness attacks twice, but only against one target. Fire Brand and Frost Brand have a small (which is what exactly?) area attack. Against size 2 humanoids, you're hitting at least three enemies with the side affect, in addition to the weapon itself. I haven't yet used them myself, so I can't say whether its worth it, but that's roughly the reason why they prefer that.

I would not go with Shades, they don't last too long with banishment going around (area attack), but they do have the decent MR. If you have the ability to summon them in quantity, Ghosts help trim the chaff with their fear, 20 hp, and 15 MR. Alternatively, a Behemoth will trample many units underfoot, and absorb a lot of spells at 104 hitpoints- though they'll go down, for sure. If you can cast darkness, it'll hinder non-dead, non-darkvision units. Most importantly, it cuts the precision the spellcasters will use- unless they've summoned undead spellcasters - easily done with EA Ctis. Banishment may be AOE, but has a precision of 0. If you're cutting precision to a quarter of its original value (Ctis - 10), it'll have trouble hitting a thing.
10/4 = 2.5. 2.5/2-2 - barring experience boni, it'll start deviating before it gets past their nose.

At ten spaces, deviation is equal to about 5 squares. Still within AOE 4, easily.

At twenty spaces, max deviation is 10 squares.

Paralyze has 100 precision, unfortunately. And I'm not certain where spell precision falls in the formula, before or after darkness. But assume the worst, it'll hit.

[HoneyBadger]

Don't forget rime hauberk (mass cold effect) or ribcage (soul vortex)

[Morkilus]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:Alternatively, a Behemoth will trample many units underfoot, and absorb a lot of spells at 104 hitpoints- though they'll go down, for sure.

This might be a good idea - mages tend to target big units with the unit-specific spells. I usually use Bane Lords as raiders, though.

[parcelt]

thanks for all the tips! there seem to be quite a few interesting alternatives to try out, my forgers are going to be busy!

Some more questions:
- i went through great pains to get my bane lords those cloaks that make them ethereal - Robe of Shadows I think. How good is being ethereal really? I think the description says 'very difficult to hit with non-magical weapons'. Also compared to some of the alternatives mentioned (e.g. ribcage or keeping the default armor) that will add real protection values and possibly some other nice bonus effect?
- how do flying boots compare to boots of quickness? I thought quikness gave a defense bonus?
- I may be confused with another item, but wasn't there some issue with the Cat Charm making the wearer go feminine (don't know if that's bad)?

[Shovah32]

The cat charm dosnt have any bad effects, the text is just there for fun. Boots of quickness give +3 attack, +3 defence and allow you to act twice per round so are far better than flying boots in most cases. Ethereality gives you a 75% chance to ignore a non-magic attack that hits you so(particularly with high defence to reduce hits) it makes you alot tougher. The fact that you cant have your armour with the cloak does make you very vunerable to magic weapons and certain magics. A nice combination is boots of stone(grants high natural protection) and robe of shadows so you dont sacrifice much protection but i wouldnt reccomend it for you because you would lose quickness which is very useful.

[Taqwus]

The stoneskin books also reduces your resistance to cold, if memory serves. This might be bad for commanders that naturally radiate cold.

A Wraith Crown gives etherealness from a head slot, as well as spawning low-level undead at the start of battle, but is quite expensive. Not as useful for wraith lords...

[Xietor]

You are getting some good advice.

Bane Lord ideally should be equipped with(and this is at constr 4, obviously better items exist down the research tree):

Weapon Fire Brand: This is a no brainer, aoe attack and fire resist

Shield-Charcoal shield or eyeshield are both good. Lucky coin is also good.

Body-something light weight to increase his movement, that also has high protectionin mail displacement or silver hauberk are both excellent.

Helm-Horror helm at const 4 is nice, obviously if you are going against a race with units immune to fear or a fire mage race, you want 100 percent fr over fear.

Boot-quickness are best, but that is const 6. Since you are there in your present game, stick with those. If you were cranking out a bane lord at constr 4, go with brimstone boots for the 100 fr and extra str.

Misc slots:how much mr do you really need? In a mp game when you are being mind hunted etc, it can never be TOO high. But In a sp game, I think you are fine with the luck pendant and ring regen.

A bane lord that is regenerating at 7 per turn is hard to kill with a smites, especially when they have only a 50 percent chance of landing.

But against a race like ctis, with their level 3 priests, or other races with high level priests, then the advice to forego offense for defense kicks in.

I would never discard luck or regen. you need them both in some form in my opinion. Maybe go with faithful weapon, lead shield, brimstone boots, horror helm, chain mail of displacement, and the ring of regeneration and the amulet of antimagic if you are facing a nation with tons of priests that smite.

The advantage of the charcoal shield, especially when combined with the horror helm, is you may be able to win even if paralyzed. Units that strike you take damage and are subject to fear effect of the helm and may rout.

So the long answer is, there is no one best answer. much depends on who you are fighting, and what types of damage and units they are using.

[sum1lost]

One nice item is rainbow armor, although you have to be living to take advantage of the reinvigoration. It provides MR, though, which is invaluable.

[HoneyBadger]

You don't necessarily need regen if you heal afflictions and have high HP. Carrion Dragon can get away with it, for instance. Bane Lord can do without it only if you're soul vortexing, at which point I still wouldn't casually drop it, since not everything can be life-drained.

[Morkilus]

HoneyBadger said:Bane Lord can do without it only if you're soul vortexing

I'm sure you mean Wraith Lord.