This may be O.T but i was just wondering...

[RecruitMonty]

The German army still is one of the best. These days its a bit small (like most European armies) but conscription Wehrdienst/Militaerdienst is still going strongish. The equipment is pretty damn good too and it has a post-war history that is a good indication of how good it could have been. It was reformed after all to fight the mightiest threat Europe has ever known. I am fairly sure it would have acquited itself very well on the battlefield against the commies.

Hell, when I finally get in then out of Uni and I have been repatriated I will probably do a stint in the Bundeswehr (if they will let me).

Give it a few years and the German army will regain more of its previous elan (most likely through further deployments). As for Prussian militarism... well military skill can be taught too and young men with the right leaders in the field can become good warriors without Prussian militarism.

Just out of interest how many Bundesheer men are on this forum and playing SPMBT? What do you guys think of the G36 assault rifle? More to the point did you prefer the G3 and its variants? What do you guys think about the army these days in general (or can't you say)?

[pdoktar]

I�ve heard stories about the G36 not beeing such a good weapon, because it�s aiming point is so much higher than the barrel, causing aiming errors at ranges, when holding the weapon a bit tilted, as sometimes happens in combat situations.

[RecruitMonty]

I think this is another example of modern weapons designers thinking more about space-age materials etc and less about the creation of a decent combat weapon. In my opinion, based on what I have heard and read, it is just a little too accurate up close and not as accurate as you would expect over distances.

Do you guys think that some of the infantry weapons that are being designed these days have taken more ispiration from Star Trek and less from what history has taught us about firearms?

My above questions still stand btw:

"Re: This may be O.T but i was just wondering... [Re: Bishop746]
#457638 - 10/14/06 06:38 PM"

[Alpha]

@ RecruitMonty: Why should the Bundeswehr get back their WW2/prussian elan ? For what ? Starting another war or defending against China, Russia, Switzerland, Luxemburg or Terroists ? IMHO Iraq, Afghanistan, also to a decree Vietnam have shown that you cannot fight certain enemies with a "normal" army. All these wars are huge failures. The russians already tried to occupy Afghanistan with probably 5x the force and much more violent than NATO. The result was ? We need to understand that those countries don�t see our soldiers as friends but as indruders and occupiers.

Also i don�t agree the conscription system for the BW is still good. It is now 9 months, or ? In 9 months you cannot teach recruits the secrets of all the modern stuff and even more important the hardness/willingness to suffer in wars.

So that was my answer to those statements from you....2nd. ppost will be more on topic

[Alpha]

Hi,

i served 90/91 in ther german Luftwaffe.12 months + reserve duty.

Units:
- Luftwaffensicherungskompanie 143F (3.Zug)
- 14./V.TSLW2

both Erndtebr�ck.

I also had a reserve duty in:
Flugabwehrrakengruppe 38 (I-Hawk)

in Burbach.

[Pazam]

I was a tank driver in the Israeli army, 1997-99 and drove the Magach6B Gal - a modified M60 American tank.

[Alpha]

pdoktar said:
I�ve heard stories about the G36 not beeing such a good weapon, because it�s aiming point is so much higher than the barrel, causing aiming errors at ranges, when holding the weapon a bit tilted, as sometimes happens in combat situations.

I know that the G3 is a good weapon (well "good" might be wrong word for a weapon, but you know what i mean)...we had old rifles, but they still had fair accuracy, reliable, easy to use, compared to the G36 (which i didn�t shoot only held)the G3 is quite heavy.

[Alpha]

Hey,maybe some ppl. that were in the infantry or know the infantry of their countries if it was a Nato or WP army, can poist their opinion (personal experience)in the thread about the Nato/WP capabilties. Thanx.

[RecruitMonty]

I never said they needed to get their "Prussian militarism" back just the �lan and high standards that it entailed. An army needs good morale to be effective in any kind of deployment be it a humanitarian one or one involving combat. Hearkening back to some of the older German military traditions (obviously not the unsavoury ones) will help to bolster that.

What it will be used for is anyone�s' guess. Just because we are on a defensive footing and/or fighting "rogue-states" and terrorists today does not mean that we won't be facing bigger and better equipped forces tomorrow. Trying to predict the sort of opponents we will face in the future by just focusing on present conflicts and then throwing all our eggs in one basket (as the modern Western military establishment seems to enjoy doing) is a stupid and ironically short-sighted way of running the military.

It would be best to maintain training standards and practices at a high level (in Germany that would mean lengthening the time conscripts had to stay in the service, something I believe you would support, and increasing the quality and scope of their training and pay). Focussing on Symmetrical warfare and operations of an offensive and defensive nature should be the norm for regular units.
Recruits and/or conscripts that show promise or are in special units should also be trained to fight A-symmetrically. If the defence budget is high enough then even regular units can be trained in similar ways (depending on the combat they are likely to face).

As for the right way to run counter terrorist deployments, well there are two ways I can think of for dealing with that sort of operation: one is messy, inhumane, expensive and long and drawn out. This would involve the deployment of large amounts of combat troops and equipment to the region where the terrorists etc were (like the USA and NATO forces are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan)

The other is equally expensive, smaller in scale, equally brutal but less likely to involve large numbers of your (whichever counry you represent) troops. Instead specialist troops can act as "advisors" to a local force the counter-insurgency).

Both methods have been used in the past (the Germans fought a fairly succesful if somewhat brutal anti-partisan campaign against the Russians and the Yugoslavs, the Americans used special forces to train Montagnards in Vietnam, the Russians fought the Afghans by using similar anti-partisan tactics as the Germans did in WWII in Afghanistan). Neither way is clean and neither way is quick. That is something the West is no longer willing to come to terms with, I fear.

With that said let me return to the subject at hand. Thank you very much for your answers Alpha. Anyone else here an old Bundesheer Soldat?

[Alpha]

Okay.

Btw. BundesHEER = Austria !
http://www.bundesheer.at/

So you were talking the whole time about austrian forces, then i agreee, they need more ELAN. Lazy austrian

German armed forces = BundesWEHR.