The Merkava 4 MBT - Page 3

loktarr · #21 July 19th, 2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

A firing hatch and observation window was also opened in the rear access door, where a sniper or sharpshooter can operate, from a protected position.

I think that this rear door must be a really good to fire at for a RPG bearer, it musst be quite unarmored...

I'm not a specialist but the turret seems to be a good "shell trap", I mean when a shell did hit the tank on the top hull or end of the turret, he can slide and hit at the jointing point of the turret and the hull. That's not good, german had this problem with the Panther A during WW2 and added in D a little steel protection over the hull. This is the same problem with Leopard, but Challenger and M1A2 don't have this problem...

just an edit for Jam:
go there to see the M1A2 SEP armor:
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm
it is given tree times depending on the year and version...

PlasmaKrab · #22 July 19th, 2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

You seem to ignore that the ROF is only used in SP for determination of ROF for indirect arty fire, so it' totally useless in the case of a MBT, for which the ROF is only determinated by the experience of the crew...

Mmh, you seem to be right, I don't know why I thought the Leclerc actually had more shots than the Abrams. What disturbs me though is that I just tested the thing, but I was unable to change the ROF ratio of my tanks... Edited a test scenario, deployed some tanks, edtied their data to have a range of ROF values with constant M/E, but when testing the scenario all my Abrams were back at ROF=6. Am I missing something or have I done something wrong?

Anyway I remind reading in some help file that the actual number of shots was related to a ROF/warhead size ratio. Is that only for artillery? If so, how can there be some discrimination among similar weapons with actually different ROFs IRL?

JaM · #23 July 19th, 2005, 09:52 AM

Merkava is not an APC, it is capable carry some soldiers, but not whole squad. Rear comparment was suposed to provide transport capability for crews from destroyed own tanks.

loktarr · #24 July 19th, 2005, 09:53 AM

Here are the formulas for ROF:
Shots= Exp/(Supression+20)*100/90

loktarr · #25 July 19th, 2005, 09:57 AM

I FOUND IT: THE SITE WHICH WAS USED BY DON AND ANDY TO DO THE GAME!!! :
http://members.tripod.com/collinsj/protect.htm
everything ids here for MBT stats

JaM · #26 July 19th, 2005, 09:58 AM

Post deleted by JaM

PlasmaKrab · #27 July 19th, 2005, 09:58 AM

Loktarr, believe you me, if IMI has designed this Merkava version hoping it will be fielded by Tsahal, they have made a very thick door indeed. Besides, the door is quite narrow, and stacked between two huge armored baskets which are definitely added on top of the armor, so if a projectile gets a grazing hit on the edge of the door it is bound to trip into the REAL armour and bounce into the basket, hurting no one (except for the mechanics, of course).

Look at pitures of the Namera APC, you will see how narrow is this rear "shell trap". Apparently only one man can come on/off at a time, even on the APC version.

On another matter, the Abrams as a pretty good shell trap under the gunbarrel too. It IS very small but opens right onto the turret ring. I don't know how much armor there is suposed to be at this point, where the barrel has to move into for positive angles.

JaM · #28 July 19th, 2005, 10:00 AM

You was faster than me...

PlasmaKrab · #29 July 19th, 2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Backis said:I'd be interested in that manual, how old is it btw?

Got it, just dug out the reference.

The book is FM 7-8 "Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad", 04/22/1992, chapter2, section 2-47 "riding on armored vehicles".

I DLed it long ago from the Army library website, which has much changed since, so I don't know if you can still get it from there.

I enclose the two pics showing riding positions on M60 and Abrams.

Edit: In this very section it is said: "The M1 tank is NOT designed to carry riders easily." !

loktarr · #30 July 19th, 2005, 10:12 AM

I was speaking of an intifada RPG not of a US M1A2 firing at a range of 5000m in the rear door of a Merkava...
For the "shell trap", I was speaking of the whole turret not of the rear door, has you said it every tank has some very weak points, but that's not the same as the "shell trap". Just imagine what will do a shell hiting on the upper hull that slides...
Edit:
seen some picture, may admit the M1 has a very good shell trap too..