New chinese MBT

[MacGalin]

From Jane's:
http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jd...0617_1_n.shtml

Chinese are testing new MBT, Type-99, armed with 140 mm cannon. ( I wonderit has something in common with Rheinmetall NATO 140 mm gun?)

Anyway: can China, using european / israeli tchnology create MBT that would easily defat its western counterparts?

[PlasmaKrab]

Depends how you look at it (that is, either from an arrogant Westerner's view, or from an arrogant Chinese's )...

Look at the Type-98G: it already has a front turret modular addon armor pack said to be similar to that of the Leopard 2A5 plus advanced ERA, their new 125mm 50cal gun is NOT an improved Russian design but a derivate from their own 120mm gun, firing DU sabot round that could very well be derivates from Israeli technology, the turbodiesel 1200hp GMP derivates from German WD396.
It is also said that Chinese manufacture AT-11 gun-fired missiles.

Apart from all that, the Type-98 is the first an yet only tank in the world to field a laser soft-kill active defence device.

Don't believe what is too often said, China moves forward like everyone else, maybe even faster right now, but quietly...

Look this unofficial site for good info about the Type-98.

[Randy]

With information like this, I wonder what the prospects are for the Army's Future Combat System? I know that we need lighter armored forces/medium weight forces, but is the FCS it? I think they might be going too light.

[Pergite]

Randy said:
With information like this, I wonder what the prospects are for the Army's Future Combat System? I know that we need lighter armored forces/medium weight forces, but is the FCS it? I think they might be going too light.

If you are hit you are probably screwed anyway. As long as you have enough firepower, then speed is a good protection as anything.

[PlasmaKrab]

Pergite, open the game, launch a battle in "tank heavy" mode with enough points to have at least one tank squadron on each side. Place both on ridges at gun range. How many shots per kill? Last time I tried this (M1 IP vs. T-80b), there were about 4 shots for one hit and 5 hits for one kill.
Now try that on medium armor, even the best of IFV (NOT Strf-90C, that's cheating ).

I can understand why some say that thick armor and big guns will die hard. Light mobile forces with long-reaching smart weapons are fine so long as you keep the edge and a good standoff. As soon as you'll lose the initiative you're done.

Anyway I don't understand why the US military fear the Chinese that much? Do they fear an invasion? Would the Chinese manage what even the Japanese didn't try, when they have a whole continent as playground as long as they don't start playing silly buggers?

Oh, anyway, I guess some people can't feel good without an enemy, and that on both sides of the Pacific ocean... mmh, quite anywhere, indeed

[SCAJolly]

Seeing as America didn't tolerate to have to share the world with the USSR, America will still not tolerate to have to share the world with China. Developing econimically and militarily in ways no one anticipated, China is truly a competitor for the title of The World's Largest Superpower.
Not only are they developing a blue-water fleet that in not many decades will rival that of the US, but they are also drooling over "re-uniting" Taiwan with its motherland, and this latter is of great concern to USA and Japan. America has already taken the side of Taiwan, and should a Chinese strike be launched, she has little to do but join in the melee. Officially, of course, there is much else to do, but if an invasion is launched, then by God there aren't many alternatives left. I doubt any US president is willing to tolerate to lose face in such a battle.
Also, the Chinese will perhaps not be as careful with their nuclear weapons as the Soviets and westerns were. They share many of the basic understandings of moral and ideology, while China's (the men in charge, of course) perception of the world is a completely different one.

[Pergite]

PlasmaKrab said:
Pergite, open the game, launch a battle in "tank heavy" mode with enough points to have at least one tank squadron on each side. Place both on ridges at gun range. How many shots per kill? Last time I tried this (M1 IP vs. T-80b), there were about 4 shots for one hit and 5 hits for one kill.
Now try that on medium armor, even the best of IFV (NOT Strf-90C, that's cheating ).

I could try that IRL in a war and that would be devestating. You cant afford waging war like that anymore and the modern battlefield would probably not even allow it. You cant just dig your tanks in on a hill and wait for the enemy to come rolling and start up a big tank duel a�la potential Fulda Gap. There wont be one big front and if you stay too long in one place, you will soon have something with a rather high Armour penetrationg value dropped on your roof, while the enemy effecivly have taken another route around your position.

I would never compromise firepower, I would rather increase it (more atgm�s). But a lighter fast moving tank could be effecitve anywhere on the battlefield and be depolyed where ever it would be needed without a enormous logistics train.
But that is just my philosophy, and I have never been that much fond of tanks anyway .

[RecruitMonty]

Has anyone actually taken a look at the state of the Chinese economy in the last few months? Its been hit pretty hard by the recent economic turmoil. It's investors, most of whom are Westerners, are starting to tighten their belts with a vengeance.

lets just see where this economic crisis leads us before we start dreaming up fantastical notions of Chinese supremacy.

Their economic growth, though very rapid, is still nowhere near high enough for them to overtake the West. The standard of living in China is still proportionately much lower than it is in Europe and America (isn't likely to improve either as the low maintenance associated with that is one of the key things that made the country so damn attractive to foreign investors in the first place). Salaries are lower across the board and Hong Kong, precisely because it was run by the British, is an exception rather than a rule. China would need many more years of virtually unimpeded growth to even begin to be on a par with the West in any of these aspects. This of course is no longer possible thanks to our little friend financial crisis.

China is almost entirely dependent on exports to other countries (mainly developed ones). As we are not exactly talking about specialist products or even crucial ones it makes things that much more fragile for their economy if things go wrong elsewhere. Why? Simple. The stuff they make anyone can and, if worse does indeed come to worst even the most arrogant Europeans and Americans will be willing to go back to making shirts and electrical appliances if it means rebuilding their own economies and securing better futures for themselves down the line. The fortunes of x million Chinese workers will be the last thing on their minds.

We might even see the end of the so called Global Economy if it turns out that the inter-dependence is what caused the damage to spread so far so fast. After all there are always two sides to every coin. We saw the benefits and now we are going to see the rest.

Bottom line is that China, like any of the Asian economies (save possibly Japan, Singapore and a couple of others) can only prosper when its customers are prospering. Its own population is in no position to what the West does for it at the moment.

China and the rest of these countries came too late to the party.