i'm a political failure!!! - Page 3

Q · #21 March 21st, 2001, 06:32 PM

Lucanos are you sure that the race who got angry after you had a treaty with them could not see your planets?? If they have a partnership treaty with an other empire who sees your planets they will see them to!!!

dumbluck · #22 March 25th, 2001, 08:54 PM

I appreciate all of your help on this, but I must admit that I am still pretty confused about why the AI hates me so much.

1) The AIs that hate me as soon as we have a treaty had never seen any of my systems, so they don't lust after my planets. I know this because NO ONE had seen my systems in any way UNLESS they visited them before I did (which is not a very high probability).

2) The AIs had seen exactly ONE of my ships: the one that made first contact then immediately turned tail and ran out of the system. So they can't be angry with me over that.

3) I never initiate any conversations with them (i figured out on my own that they don't much like to be pestered with lots of general Messages).

4) I'm not MEE (hell, i'm not even in first place! the red guy that builds lots of ships is. he's got like 30 or 40 more ships than I do.)

So why do they hate me as soon as I make a treaty with them?

As an update, I HAVE found two races that don't hate me as soon as I make a treaty with them. One is the phong, I'm their partner and they are brotherly with me. the other is the red guys that build lots of ships. I just met them a few turns ago (but knew they were there for longer thru the phong). we have a TA, and they still like me. One thing to note is that there is one empire between my systems and each of my two treaties. I know that the red guys haven't seen my systems, and (of coarse), the phong have. Is it possible that there is a bug and the AI lusts after your systems even if it CAN'T see them?

[This message has been edited by dumbluck (edited 25 March 2001).]

DirectorTsaarx · #23 March 26th, 2001, 05:07 PM

It may be possible that it isn't necessarily anger at you, but anger in general, which gets directed at all races they have contact with.

More detail: when you make first contact, mood always seems to be "moderate". The mood is then modified by the races' anger score. Some events make them more or less angry to you in particular (ships/colonies in their system, coveting planets, various message types, giving gifts/tribute, etc.). However, anger can also increase for other reasons, depending on whether the race is peaceful, bloodthirsty or neutral. The "generic" anger may affect the AI's relations with neighbors.

Any other opinions on this?

Arralen · #24 March 26th, 2001, 08:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dumbluck:
Is it possible that there is a bug and the AI lusts after your systems even if it CAN'T see them?

Very likely - look at the "borders" screen - what does it say which system are "conquested" when you activate only your race and them?
Then disable the AI for that race .. and look which systems theirmap says they've claimed ...
Found the Sergetti claim 3 of my 4 systems, but when I looked into their turn, I found that they only have seen ONE, and of course haven't claimed the others !!!

Has anyone seen similar ?

Thinking about mailing the savegame to MM ..

A.

Lucanos · #25 March 27th, 2001, 11:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
It may be possible that it isn't necessarily anger at you, but anger in general, which gets directed at all races they have contact with.

More detail: when you make first contact, mood always seems to be "moderate".

(snip)

Any other opinions on this?

First I'd like to answer Q and Master B.

No!
...and
...No!

Now I'd like to ask DirectorTsaarx: If the AI have "anger" in general, howcome I've never met any angry or happy empires.

All empires I've met started of as "moderate" which doesn't seem like any "general anger" to me. Is the "general anger" an amount of decrease/increase in anger perhaps?

I think some of you agree with me when I say that the anger rules are somewhat fu*ked up (*=my respect for the moralists). All races are actually psychotic and no AI empires (not even the Phong or the Eee) are Honorable or Serene.

But even though the game is unbalanced and full of psychotic, dumb, evil empires it's still (one of the) the best game(s) in the world. Why is that?

Lucanos · #26 March 27th, 2001, 11:32 PM

ARRALEN,

do you set the option:
"Can view score of all players"

...at game setup?

Mabbe that's why AI empires get angry over planets they can't "see"?

Marty Ward · #27 March 28th, 2001, 02:55 AM

I've noticed since I installed the mod pak races that when I meet a new race they are always moderate and in 2-3 turns they are at war with me. I used to think it was personel against me. Glad to see I'm not alone in pissing them off for no reason.
Oh well I'd rather fight allies than be allies anyway!

Arralen · #28 March 28th, 2001, 11:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lucanos:
ARRALEN,do you set the option:
"Can view score of all players" ...at game setup?Maybe that's why AI empires get angry over planets they can't "see"?

Only "can view score of allied players" - and the Sergetti never had any treaty with me (but I'll check this in the logfile

).

However, the point is not them getting angry .. the problems is my map says they claim my systems (what would make them angry), but their map doesn't even show these systems because they had never been there .. and you can't claim a system you never explored !!!

A.

Daynarr · #29 March 28th, 2001, 04:12 PM

The thing about AI claiming neighboring system is automatic and hard-coded. Whenever AI colonizes a system it automatically claims all surrounding systems even if he can't see them.

However, I don't believe that AI will go angry over a system that he can't see (in my experience). When game determines AI anger it simply looks at ALL the planets that AI can see and are colonized by you. For example, if I have claimed my neighboring system that has only asteroids in it and the AI has claimed the same system, it won't affect AI's anger. But if AI makes partnership with me (or some other empire that can see my systems), it can go berserk in just few turns.

What AI also hates are ships in his territory (if you don't have any treaty with him). If you have large fleet in any of system that AI claims, he will go angry really fast (the increase of anger is per-ship). This can be the cause of the anger discussed here.

DirectorTsaarx · #30 March 29th, 2001, 12:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lucanos:
Now I'd like to ask DirectorTsaarx: If the AI have "anger" in general, howcome I've never met any angry or happy empires.

All empires I've met started of as "moderate" which doesn't seem like any "general anger" to me. Is the "general anger" an amount of decrease/increase in anger perhaps?

As I said in my original post, they always seem to start off "moderate" towards you; their mood from then on is definitely changed by your actions; but _may_ also be changed by other events, outside your control. THAT would be a "general anger" event. But I can't verify that this is happening.