SE5 - Strategies

[Q]

I agree that strategies and connected with this formations are very important and should be improved for SE V:
1.) Starting position (at least for the defender). It should be possible to choose the initial placement of your fleet as e.g. around a planet or a warp point. This includes the orientation against the enemy. Not infrequentely in SE IV the leader is not nearest to the enemy.
2.) Individual ship placement in a fleet formation. Then your transports, minesweepers, repair ships can be placed in the more protected center of your fleet formation. This may include individual "break formation" orders for specific ships.
3.) No ship number limits for formations. Combats with more than 100 ships are quite frequent in my games.
4.) Different Strategies according to enemy strength: Against a lonely enemy ship I might want to use a completely different strategy than against a superior fleet.

[Baron Munchausen]

Well, yes, they do need to be much improved. SE IV 'strategies' are actually NOT strategies. They are just single decision flags that only give us control over a part of the single hard-coded strategy that all ships have. When a ship has been given 'maximum weapon range' as a strategy for example, it will decide what to do based on whatever weapon is current available (ready to fire) rather than its maximum weapon range so it will not stay out at maximum missile range if you give it any beam weapons. We need true strategies that the ships will really follow consistently not just access to a few flags to influence some of the decisions in the single hard-coded strategy.

Also, we need different types of strategies. All of the 'strategies' available in SE IV are based on targetting (in other words, there is only ONE strategy). Some ships should NOT be targetting and attacking other ships, even in combat, NOR running away (trying to avoid being targetted). Escorts, for example, should stick with the ship they have been assigned to escort. Moving to attack is contrary to their intended strategy, and also running away is contrary to their intended strategy. This cannot be done at all on SE IV. If we have a properly implemented 'range of vision' in tactical combat (and a large enough combat map to make it matter) there will also be need for a 'scout' strategy. A 'scout' will want to get close enough to see the enemy and broadcast data back to the main fleet, but NOT get close enough to fire or be fired on.

The idea for a script engine for the Strategies is cool, but - apart from sounding like a lot of work for MM, I can't help thinking that non-programmers are going to feel very disadvantaged when dealing with combat.

I think that the current interface - pick-lists and check-boxes - is as complicated as it should get in a game. Additions/improvements I'd like to see might include:

1) SubGroups within fleets - as suggested above.

2) Ability to defend or attack objectives (bases, planets, warp-points). Additional movement options might include move towards/away from/maintian x range from planet/base/warp-point.

3) More sophisticated ways of controlling the range. As far as I can see in SEIV, ships will either fire then move, or move then fire, and will always move their maximum allowance. This means that a ship that's theoretically trying to maintain maximum range will generally overshoot the range boundary. This tends to scatter fleets very quickly, and allow ships with both speed and range advantages to still get themselves killed. It would be good if ships could slow down or fire in the middle of a move in order to manage the range better, and movement options like maintain range x might be interesting. (But if the combat engine is very different this may all be irrelevant anyway).

4) The possibility of retreating or breaking contact. (How about, if a ship/fleet with "break contact" orders manages to increase the range from the nearest enemy every round for ten combat rounds, then it successfully breaks contact and moves to a neighbouring sector)

5) Movement options based on friendly ships (or at least friendly leader ships). e.g. move away from/towards/maintain range x from leader.

Can't think of anything else for now.

Mark

[Aiken]

Thank you for asking our opinion.

All I really want is:

1. additional strategy "Stand Still" - so ships should not move at all. They should fire on incoming enemy though.

2. I'd like to be able to assign any strategy to any type of ships. Ex. tell armed to the teeth worldship to use "don't get hurt strategy". And it should obey.

PS: Although my heart belongs to strategies implemented through nice scripting language.

[spoon]

If you keep the strategy section more generic (which I think you should -- scripting isn't something everyone can do), maybe have these categories:

Point Blank (Same as in SE4)
Short Range (Same as in SE4)
Optimal Range (Same as in SE4)
Maximum Range - Longest Range Weapon (eg, a ship with a missile and a Meson BLaster would always stay at maximum missile distance)
Maximum Range - Shortest Range Weapon (eg, a ship with a missile and a Meson BLaster would always stay at maximum Meson BLaster range).
User Defined Range (Assign a specific distance. Not sure how distance is going to be defined in SE5, but this number could be in Squares, Meters, or whatever).
Stand Still (Like mentioned above, the ship does not move. Great for a Satellite Laying strategy!)

Default probably to Optimal Firing Range, as in SE4.

edit: Note that this list doesn't include stuff like boarding, ramming, and running away, which should all be in there too...

[Phoenix-D]

I think the most essential feature is pretty basic. Ships with don't get hurt orders should not run to the corners that are PAST the enemy fleet. Right now they often run straight at the enemy while seeking that far corner..not very helpful.

[rdouglass]

Obviously the key is the combat engine, but I don't see how those withou scripting skills would not want the capabilities to be in the game. I mean, I don't mod AI's or do shipsets, but I sure appreciate those that do and I use them extensively.

If the combat engine had 'branch points' for each of the scenarios/strategies suggested, there could be a generic set of scripts for each of those scenarios just like there is generic AI's and shipsets. Also, those with the talent and / or ambition could script their own 'strategy module'. My interpretation (and hence my script) for Don't Get Hurt could vary slightly (or significantly for that matter) from yours.

Having a scripted combat engine should not preclude those without scripting knowledge to benefit from the system. But those of us that do, can and want to. Maybe your individual playstyle would benefit from just 'plugging in' one or two custom scripts on one of these great fan sites.

Game options should include a "Use Custom Scripts" option.

That's what I meant in my first post. Personally, I'd love to see it.

[Thermodyne]

I think the most essential feature is pretty basic. Ships with don't get hurt orders should not run to the corners that are PAST the enemy fleet. Right now they often run straight at the enemy while seeking that far corner..not very helpful.

Perhaps ships set to "Don't get hurt" should be able to refuse combat and run off the map if they are fast enough to do so before getting damaged.

[Sinapus]

The ability to pick a formation for each fleet and place the ships however you want them is a good idea. Designating escorts that will interpose themselves between enemy ships and the escorted ship would also be nice.

Having ships stay near planets so they can get covering fire from any planetary defenses would also be neat. Divvying up fighters and satellites into small Groups instead of one huge stack would also be effective.

[se5a]

currently hte "he who fires first wins" is annoying. so is the "winer gets almost no damage" but if battles are going to be in real time then those should not be a problem anymore.


subgroops or squads within fleets is a great idea.

I would love to see scripted stratergies, dont worry about the non coders, somone will pogram a simple checkbox type app to create a script for you.

more options as to what ships should target is a must, ie - fire on ships with shields only, fire on ships with most shields, fire on ships with most armor. fire on ships with most suply storage if its not to far away, fire on ships with most repair capabilitys. etc.

now for a new idea:
how about formations which can change during battle, ie. ships at the front will begin to move to the back as there shields go down, ships at the back will begin to move foward to take the place of the ships with there shields lowerd.

and an option for a ship to change its individual stratergy if somehting occurs during combat, like its shields drop past X amount then it should change to run away

a stratergy wich will have ships attempt to stay behind other ships in a fleet, but not run away would be good to.