Help, read all the faqs, playing demo, dont know how to PLAY...

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Smauler:
If you can't (you need 2 death), give one or two of them empowerment up to 2 death. Revive a Bane, then repeatedly revive wights (shift-M). You could also research to level 4, empower to 3 death, and summon shade beasts too, but it's not necessary.

You would probably be be much better off to forge skull staffs, at a cost of only 10 death gems, rather than empowering at a much larger cost.

Also, empower your Skratti(s) to water 2 if you don't have one, and cast summon ice drake repeatedly with them.

Skratti come with water 2 already, so they don't need any enhancement for ice drakes.

When you have enough Nature gems empower a Skratti up to 3 (or you have a lucky Skratti with 3 nature already), and repeatedly summon pride of lions.

A Gygja with nature 2 would be a far better choice, since she can forge a thistle mace to bring herself to nature 3.

[Smauler]

Originally posted by Arryn:

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Originally posted by Smauler:
I generally just produce Jotun Godes as commanders (Priest level 3, leadership 25),

For short games, I'd recommend Jarls. Godes are too expensive unless your strategy is dominion spread (very hard in short games) or blessing sacred troops (not recommended to use with Smauler's pretender magic picks).

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Jarls are 34 resources though, as opposed to 18, so if you're resource as opposed to gold limited, they may not be the best option. If you're short of gold though, they are cheaper. I realise blessing's pretty useless with those magic picks (ps. I saw a list of bless effects, but can't seem to find it now, do you know where it is?).

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Jotun Axemen or Jotun woodsmen as troops.

I recommend Jotun Spearmen (or the spear-carrying Hirdmen) over Axemen. The longer length of the spear is very effective for repels, which means your troops tend to get fewer wounds and live longer. Axes do more damage, but I prefer every edge in favor of troop defense.

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I'll probably give them a try next turn, sound good. I just went for axemen before because of their higher damage.

Woodsmen are a poor choice in bang-for-the-buck, unless you are playing a bless strategy. They are quite fragile, compared to other choices, and expensive.

Yes, I realise this. I only use them if I find resources to be a problem. In my Last game, I could recruit 6 woodsmen and two axemen in one turn, as opposed to just four axemen. But if gold is a problem at all, they're not really worth it.

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Smauler:
If you can't (you need 2 death), give one or two of them empowerment up to 2 death. Revive a Bane, then repeatedly revive wights (shift-M). You could also research to level 4, empower to 3 death, and summon shade beasts too, but it's not necessary.

You would probably be be much better off to forge skull staffs, at a cost of only 10 death gems, rather than empowering at a much larger cost.

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I haven't got into forging yet (I haven't been playing too long), but I can't see the skull staves in the forging menu. Is there something I'm missing, or does the demo just not have them?

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quote:Also, empower your Skratti(s) to water 2 if you don't have one, and cast summon ice drake repeatedly with them.

Skratti come with water 2 already, so they don't need any enhancement for ice drakes.

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Oh yeah, missed that. I thought for some reason they only came with 1, but got a random to two.

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quote:When you have enough Nature gems empower a Skratti up to 3 (or you have a lucky Skratti with 3 nature already), and repeatedly summon pride of lions.

A Gygja with nature 2 would be a far better choice, since she can forge a thistle mace to bring herself to nature 3.

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Oops, yes I meant Gygia, typo. I can't see the mace in the forging menu either though, perhaps it is just a demo limitation.

Anyway, thanks for all the points and suggestions. I'll take them into account when playing my next Jotunhelm, though I'm going to try some other races a bit more first, while waiting for my full game to arrive (ordered monday morning, but I'm in England, and chose cheapest postage, only $4 as opposed to $15+ for the others. I can but hope it'll come tomorrow for the weekend ).

I know I've screwed up the boldness in this post, but it's still obvious who's post is whos, if not, I'll edit.

[Saxon]

Gavinfox,

May I suggest that you forget about winning the first game or two? If you are really having a hard time with the game mechanics, focus on learning the mechanics rather than winning the game. For example, if you just figured out paying gold for provincial defense, all the fancy bless strategies and scales are not going to help you right now. Spend some time clicking on different things, try stuff out and experiment. Yes, you will make mistakes and lose, but you will learn the game. Play 20 turns, then start again with the same god. Play 20 more, then start again with another god.

Give that a try once or twice, then come back and try to win. You will understand the basics much more and will be in a position to try the fancy stuff. No offense to the others, but some of the suggestions are telling you how to run when you are still learning to walk.

Gandalf's suggestions are solid and his point that this game is not for everyone is very valid. I hope you are one of us, as it is an amazing game, but sometimes people are not into it. Give it a shot, we hope you stay!

Good luck!

[tinkthank]

Originally posted by Gavinfox:
What I meant was, "Give me a good simple, win-in-40-turns strategy, controlling all possible variables, which will help me to understand various parts of the game as possible with the demo."

How to play the flute in 2 easy steps (by Monty Python)
1. Blow into the mouthpiece
2. Move your fingers over the keys so as to produce beautiful music.

But seriously, you are asking a bit much.

Many people here have already given you very good tips. There *ARE* some good threads on this board directed to exactly the *type* of questions you want answered (although no one will be able to tell you exactly how to control all the variables and win in 40 turns).
Here is one I started for just this purpose:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...=001728#000000

There is a slight discrepancy being *knowing* the truth-value of certain propositions (e.g. I know that it is better to purchase mercs under conditions ABC than PQR if the price is XYZ and the turn is between 10 and 22), and *being able to* carry out certain actions based on these propositions. (That is why I can explain to you perfectly well how to drive a car or ski that slope, but that doesn't mean you can do so just by listening to me.) This is one of the oldest pedagogical problems of the universe. (And yes, the game is not sufficiently documented even with this in mind, which is odd, considering that *teachers* made the game.)

You will need to ask very specific questions to specific problems, otherwise the answers you will get will be unsatisfactory to you (how to play the flute).

[Esben Mose Hansen]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
How to play the flute in 2 easy steps (by Monty Python)
1. Blow into the mouthpiece
2. Move your fingers over the keys so as to produce beautiful music.

Wasn't that Shakespeare? In Hamlet? I believe it was Hamlet speaking to Rosenkrans and the other guy...

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Smauler:
Jarls are 34 resources though, as opposed to 18, so if you're resource as opposed to gold limited, they may not be the best option. If you're short of gold though, they are cheaper.

quote:

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Woodsmen are a poor choice in bang-for-the-buck, unless you are playing a bless strategy. They are quite fragile, compared to other choices, and expensive.

Yes, I realise this. I only use them if I find resources to be a problem. In my Last game, I could recruit 6 woodsmen and two axemen in one turn, as opposed to just four axemen. But if gold is a problem at all, they're not really worth it.

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Jotunheim will always be resource-limited. But, IMO, a key to playing Jotuns is building quality troops, not quantity. Jotunheim doesn't really have cheap troops (resource-wise), nor cheap enough to be treated as fodder. So if you aren't going to build fodder, then make sure that each trooper counts. Jotuns are kind of like an entire army of elites that crush with disdain anything that gets in their way. The only things you have to be concerned with are knights (and heavy cavalry), Ulms, and anyone that can swarm you at 4:1+ odds (beware of Ermor).

[Gavinfox]

Well it looks like I'll be learning this game with Jotun and a Wyrm...

A question, do you need to have troops in a stack for a Wyrm to conquer a province by himself? (Ie, just put them in the back?)

PS, does anyone know where I can get a non-2.08 Version of the demo so Utgard will work right? Thanks!

[ July 22, 2004, 14:50: Message edited by: Gavinfox ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Smauler:
I haven't got into forging yet (I haven't been playing too long), but I can't see the skull staves in the forging menu. Is there something I'm missing, or does the demo just not have them?

You have to research construction magic to level 4 in order to forge both skull staves and thistle maces. The magic item quick reference that is available on the main page is a good reference for what each item does.

[Sindai]

Originally posted by Gavinfox:
A question, do you need to have troops in a stack for a Wyrm to conquer a province by himself? (Ie, just put them in the back?)

What do you mean "troops in a stak for the wyrm to conquer a province by himself"? That seems directly contradictory. You don't need any troops with the wyrm to occupy the province. It beats the defending indigenous defenders and the province is yours.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
The magic item quick reference that is available on the main page is a good reference for what each item does.

The Version available for download from Shrapnel's page is about 4 Versions behind the current one. I'd recommend getting it from my site at this link.

EDIT: if you visit my site, go ahead and grab the other downloadable docs which I host while you're there. You'll be glad you did.

[ July 22, 2004, 15:40: Message edited by: Arryn ]