Good game, but....the AI is very bad. - Page 3

Kuroth1 · #21 May 8th, 2004, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:
Originally posted by proteus:

quote:
Originally posted by Leif_-:
Of course they can be fixed, it's just going cost more than it's worth.

I dont agree. Huge amount of players are only playing singleplayer games. They should get the best what is possible for their money.
This game costs a lot of money, like the top seller high-end games. This is why the devs should focus on this, since this is the weak part of the game right now.
Im real sorry if anyone feels they arent getting their money worth. I used to hear the same thing about Master of Magic because it wasnt multiplayer. Or GalCiv (the #1 AI game by the way) because it wasnt multi-platform. Now we have Illwinter's PBEM multiplayer game because the AI isnt good enough for decent solo play. Maybe the game description needs touched up.

Gandalf I am confused... Are you saying that the SP game of DomII IS BAD because of Bad AI and they should change the Description to read PBEM only???

Gandalf I had been meaning to ask you a question and now I guess is a good time... I think I read one time that you play SP 95% of the time.... My questions is what do you think of the AI??? Is the game fun and good as a SP game????

I am just asking because I always respect your opinion...

Thanks!

Gandalf Parker · #22 May 8th, 2004, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by proteus:
Sorry, there was no information that the SP part is totally useless, and that it is for train and practice only, in fact read the features page. I wouldnt buy the game than.

Dont get me wrong, I understand that its hard to write a good AI, but hell, a half year passed since the release of Doms 2..or even more?!!!
Still nothing, and as I understand Kristoffer O. they havent even touched the AI!!!

I cant believe this.

What cant you believe about it? you are talking about what? 1 patch? 2 patches?

Im mostly a solo player but I dont expect them to spend alot of time upgrading a part of the game that isnt mainline to what they created.

The fact that some improvements are coming MIGHT be due to the fact that some players finally started doing test runs.

JaydedOne · #23 May 8th, 2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by proteus:
Yes we do hope as well. I guess you dont really care about it as I see. Sad..

Constructive criticism citing that your topmost interest as a player for future patches is an AI improvement (and offering a few suggestions on how to go about it) is one thing. Flat-out Knocking a developer who has shown more support for his community than all but a handful of his better-paid, full-time colleagues is another.

Guess which one is more likely to garner respect and a proactive response from both devs and fellow community members.

[ May 08, 2004, 22:50: Message edited by: JaydedOne ]

Gandalf Parker · #24 May 8th, 2004, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kuroth1:
Gandalf I am confused... Are you saying that the SP game of DomII IS BAD because of Bad AI and they should change the Description to read PBEM only???

Well Illwinter has never made any great claims about the AI. What was quoted was from the Shrapnel site. (they are the game production company. they are supposed to market it)

And yes, I think the description would be easier to fix than the AI for now. Im sure its on their list but I dont know what would have been left out of the Last couple of patches to give it to us. The speed control in battles? (I can hear he reaction to THAT)

Quote:

Gandalf I had been meaning to ask you a question and now I guess is a good time... I think I read one time that you play SP 95% of the time.... My questions is what do you think of the AI??? Is the game fun and good as a SP game????

I would love to see it improved. I have no problem with asking. Im thrilled when I see Posts that actually try to pin down and test some suggested improvements. Its worked for me and Ive been making suggestions since the first days of Dom1. In my own small way Ive also tried to improve it thru maps. (www.dom2minions.com)

What I dont like is to see people saying its broke, making it sound like some falsified rip-off, demanding work be done on it, and generally turning it into something that the devs dont want to touch (well one dev programmer actually). Its not the subject I disagree with, its the tactics. Not only do I think they wont work well, I think they go in the opposite direction.

[ May 08, 2004, 22:54: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

guybrush threepwood · #25 May 8th, 2004, 11:55 PM

Hi,

First, I certainly think that every krone spent on this captivating game has been spent well!

And I certainly understand that the AI can be an extremely difficult thing to come up with good algorithms for.

But I just wanted to point out that improvements to the AI would certainly be highly appreciated by many people. If it is possible to find the time to do it of course.

Anyway, I find comments about "not getting what you paid for" hard to comprehend.

Cheers,
Thomas

proteus · #26 May 8th, 2004, 11:56 PM

1. I am NOT MStavros he is my older brother, and we are using one computer.
He introduced Dominions II. to me, and you know what?? We bought 2 copies not just one !!!!. I am playing multi games with him usually.
I didnt knew about his old topic, so Ive started a new, after we had a discussion about the AI at home.

I am a kinda new D2 player, I have like 2 months of experience, and I love the complexity of it.

I think that this is positive critism, isnt it??
Scripting must be hard I am totally sure, but this is nonsense to me still. Half year and no AI improvements....definitely not a good way to raise the 'fame' of IW.

Mr Parker, if you are a solo player, I simply cant understand your points at all. Even I can beat the crap out of this AI easily, and I am a newbie compared to you.
So what is the fun for you in the SP than?

IMHO the devs should make a statement, that they wont raise the quality of the AI, and people like me, who would like to enjoy the SP part as well will shut up once and for all, and play lot less with Doms II. [Only MP if we will have time for it.]
However I really hope that the devs wont forget about the lot of SP fans...eh well for 6 months they did actually.

You know I am reading that old topic, what my brother mentioned and all of those hella old problems with the AI are still not solved.
Perhaps IW should hire a new coder, if the current coder doesnt have the time to upgrade the AI...because it seems so..

Norfleet · #27 May 9th, 2004, 12:03 AM

You seem to believe that AI coding is easy, and that you can just "hire another coder".

I'm sorry to inform you that this is not the case. AI coding is damn hard, and even if you hire some overpaid code monkey, there's no guarantee he won't produce something which sucks even more. Name ONE game that has truly had good AI. Then tell me what its production budget was.

Do you think Illwinter can afford that?

[ May 08, 2004, 23:03: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

proteus · #28 May 9th, 2004, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

What I dont like is to see people saying its broke, making it sound like some falsified rip-off, demanding work be done on it, and generally turning it into something that the devs dont want to touch (well one dev programmer actually). Its not the subject I disagree with, its the tactics. Not only do I think they wont work well, I think they go in the opposite direction.

I apologize I never wanted to be 'demanding'. Simply this is my opinion.
I respect IW and their work, the game is really good. The only thing what I dont like, that the Doms II. AI improvement idea is totally dropped as I see.

A dev comment that it might be fixed...however they cannot guarantee it after lot of months..made me pissed.
So sorry for the tone of my Posts, but that made me very angry.

proteus · #29 May 9th, 2004, 12:12 AM

double post sorry.

[ May 08, 2004, 23:12: Message edited by: proteus ]

proteus · #30 May 9th, 2004, 12:12 AM

Indeed the game is complex -> hard to make a good AI.
there are lot better AIs for various games, take a look at HoMM3 for example.
It is not as complex that is true, but there the comp is making huge and strong armies, its really decent. Also it is using them very well.

Just go and play with it on harder settings you will have hard days, I guarantee it.

The Doms2 AI is hella weak compared to the homm3 AI for example. These little light infantry armies and the various other AI problems wont offer a little challenge at all.
I guess -as someone said- lot of people would be thankful for AI improvements, lot of people bought the game to play and enjoy the SP part as well, the game was advertised as a sp-mp game.
The core game had a bad AI, but why do we have a bad AI after a half year still? THIS is the real question here.

[ May 08, 2004, 23:13: Message edited by: proteus ]