Vampire Queen mod - Page 3

Graeme Dice · #21 April 19th, 2004, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wendigo:
A cadre of death &/or astral mages should also be able to finish her easily, if protected by an apropiate meat shield.

Death mages could, astral mages definetly couldn't. In positive dominion, with both a skullcap and an AMA she will have a MR in the 30's.

Kel · #22 April 19th, 2004, 04:28 PM

I think it is appropriate to say that the VQ isn't totally invincible, as no units are.

However, while we can compare her to other near-invincible SC's and we can point out the few, specific counter-measures, she is still immortal, on top of all the rest. So yes, if you are playing the right race or have an SC designed to defeat her and you have researched the specific paths or created all the right items, you can *maybe* beat her in a given encounter.

Your victory forces her to re-spawn. As I see it, that's just an extra ability, a free "Returning"

- Kel

HotNifeThruButr · #23 April 19th, 2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by SelfishGene:
What do people consider to be a 'typical' SC Vampire Queen build?

Try one with Death 3, water 2, earth 2, air 4, fire 2. This is barely affordable for a couple of the living nations, and definetly available for the undead ermor themes. Research alteration 3, enchantment 1. Have her cast quickness, mirror image, mistform, breath of winter, ironskin. Send her out against a few different independent provinces to get an idea of how she speeds up expansion.

Later on, research up to alteration 7, construction 6, and give her some new items and toys to play with. I suggest something like:
Sword of swiftness, charcoal shield, starshine skullcap or spirit helmet, elemental armor, quickness boots, luck pendant, antimagic amulet.
Have her cast soul vortex, breath of winter, mistform, mirror image, phoenix pyre. Throw her at anything that comes into your dominion and watch the carnage.

Doesn't that make the problem spawn from killer dominions? They have enough points to make an incredible SC where most living nations don't.

Vicious Love · #24 April 19th, 2004, 07:07 PM

I suppose in addition to making the VQ vulnerable to fire and possibly removing an item slot or two, we could just increase her path cost. The IC rationale for the present cost seems to be that mortals are naturally more versatile than monsters, as they have no natural, exclusive affinity for a particular path. It seems to me the VQ is much more a creature of death and Ze Bludd than she is a human.
Complicating things a bit, I don't suppose we could have the VQ consume 1/2/3 blood slaves per round and, if these are unavailable, suffer a local Dominion loss/temporary Path loss/temporary stat loss/whatever? This probably won't solve the problem at hand, but it might add a bit of flavah.

Wendigo · #25 April 19th, 2004, 07:18 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

Quote:

Death mages could, astral mages definetly couldn't. In positive dominion, with both a skullcap and an AMA she will have a MR in the 30's.

MR of 30 or not, 30x Solar rays with damage boosted by Light of the N Star will take care of her.

Huzurdaddi · #26 April 19th, 2004, 07:20 PM

Honestly I think the whole problem with her is the life draining attack. But I guess changing that would be pretty much out of character.

So I guess just bumping up her cost to 125 or so, and increasing her magic path costs to 50 or so should help the problem.

But really the problem is the life drain attack. Make it armor piercing, heck make it add +10 damage or something wacky like that to "rebalance it." You can even reduce her cost. But if you remove the life drain I can guarantee that she will be much more "balanced."

Wendigo · #27 April 19th, 2004, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kel:

Your victory forces her to re-spawn. As I see it, that's just an extra ability, a free "Returning"

She will have to heal afflictions & re-forge all her gear again, which particularly in the case of dead Ermor is quite of a problem because of the narrowness of the national mages.

Norfleet · #28 April 19th, 2004, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
But really the problem is the life drain attack. Make it armor piercing, heck make it add +10 damage or something wacky like that to "rebalance it."

Uh....you want to make life drain BETTER? It already *IS* armor piercing, but currently adds 0 damage. You want to make it add +10 damage now? How's that balanced?

Kel · #29 April 19th, 2004, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:
Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
But really the problem is the life drain attack. Make it armor piercing, heck make it add +10 damage or something wacky like that to "rebalance it."

Uh....you want to make life drain BETTER? It already *IS* armor piercing, but currently adds 0 damage. You want to make it add +10 damage now? How's that balanced?

I think he meant give it +10 (or something) *instead* of life draining...

Correct me if I am wrong.

- Kel

Huzurdaddi · #30 April 19th, 2004, 08:44 PM

Quote:

I think he meant give it +10 (or something) *instead* of life draining...

Yup that's what I meant. The life drain portion of the attack is what really makes the VQ go in the early game. Get rid of that, and "balance" it back with almost ANYTHING ( like a +10 AP attack, whatever! ) and she will not be an expanion machine.

She will probably still be pretty decenet with tons of high powered items, but that's ok. Almost all pretenders are pretty good with tons of high powered items. Maybe not as good as her, but heck she does cost 110 points.