When the patch will be released ?

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Dekent:
In dom1 the editing is done via notepad basically...thats not a mod tool which is what Im concerned about..

And are you talking about a doc file on their website? I didn't see any information about it there.

Also in dom1 for the life of me I could never figure out how to use graphics already in the game, which drove me nuts

Well the mod files that are available from Illwinters site. http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/mods.html
can be downloaded and looks at. They are just text files and tga files.

The MonEdit.pdf lists the things that could be done in Dom1 and between the two I dont see much difference other than the mod files finally give a clear example of how its used.
http://www.illwinter.com/dom/monedit.pdf

Im not sure what a mod tool would add except maybe a graphic menu thing (Ive got a sig line about Users and menus but its kindof insulting).

To use game graphics in your own works...
start a game, find the unit
hit the "print screen" button at the upper right hand of your keyboard
put the game down to the bar for a minute with something like Ctrl-Esc
open a paint program
go to the EDIT menu and hit "paste"
make changes and save

[Dekent]

If I really thought cut and copy was a good alternative I would of done it...

However you can not deny that being able to just type the name (or number) of the unit would be much better.

And it doesn't matter if you used to working in command lines, GUI is (almost) always easier, and seeing as how I am playing a game for fun, I don't want to stress or spend that much time working on a scenario.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Dekent:
If I really thought cut and copy was a good alternative I would of done it...

However you can not deny that being able to just type the name (or number) of the unit would be much better.

I dont see them adding a paint program into the ModEditor. Maybe (just dreaming here) something that would let you click a color and change it so you could change a gold paladin into a white knight.

So clicking a unit would.... what? bring up the stats and let you edit them in little boxes, then save the changes as #commands to a text file? I could see that. At least it would let you view the units and select as an AllView game does.

And it doesn't matter if you used to working in command lines, GUI is (almost) always easier, and seeing as how I am playing a game for fun, I don't want to stress or spend that much time working on a scenario.

Of course. Everything has its pros and cons. A gui is an easier to use interface. And a command line is more options than a gui. Thats pretty much standard.

[Dekent]

I'm not exactally sure what allview is...

I'm not too intersted in making entire new units as some people seem to be...I feel there are more then enough (something like 6000?) already in the game. I'm mostly interested in editing existing units into something I could use for my little scenarios I like to make...

For example...one Dom1 thing I made involved 2 small island nations I made, one Ermor and the other Marigon.

The Ermor one was led by a dracolich while the Marigon a red dragon. However I wanted both of them to be immortal which is something I could not do without making a new unit. For 1. you can not make edited dragons (capable of transforming) in dom1, and 2. Even if I could that would require me to get the sprites of the great sage, bog mummy, dracolich, and red dragon..for their attack and still frames, that would be 8 captures...way too much of a pain for someone like me who just likes to make stupid little scenarios over and over.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Dekent:
I'm not exactally sure what allview is...

AllView is a game created by a short program. Basically it counted from 1 to 1010 and created a #commander and #commname assigning it to a province which one nation owned. So one province ended up with 1010 units which started out with the commander numbered 1, who was named "1". This way you "play" that game and you can view everything in in the game and see what number its assigned.

I'm not too intersted in making entire new units as some people seem to be...I feel there are more then enough (something like 6000?) already in the game. I'm mostly interested in editing existing units into something I could use for my little scenarios I like to make...

Actually I think thats what most are planning to some extent. As you say there are plenty already. Some might just edit some stats, some might make some small change to the image, some might give it a new name. But I dont think too many lan to make completely new units from scratch. Except maybe this guy http://www.geocities.com/fmunoz_/dominions/index.html

For example...one Dom1 thing I made involved 2 small island nations I made, one Ermor and the other Marigon.

The Ermor one was led by a dracolich while the Marigon a red dragon. However I wanted both of them to be immortal which is something I could not do without making a new unit. For 1. you can not make edited dragons (capable of transforming) in dom1, and 2. Even if I could that would require me to get the sprites of the great sage, bog mummy, dracolich, and red dragon..for their attack and still frames, that would be 8 captures...way too much of a pain for someone like me who just likes to make stupid little scenarios over and over.

We dont know yet how the modding works. I dont know if you can specify the number of a creature already in the game and must list the things you want to change. Do the other stats default to something? Do they stay the same as what that monster is except for the changes you put in? That might be nice but I dont know if its going to work that way or not.

[ December 12, 2003, 19:44: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Dekent:
If I really thought cut and copy was a good alternative I would of done it...

However you can not deny that being able to just type the name (or number) of the unit would be much better.

And it doesn't matter if you used to working in command lines, GUI is (almost) always easier, and seeing as how I am playing a game for fun, I don't want to stress or spend that much time working on a scenario.

GUI is easier?

No way. With a decent shell, the command line is leagues ahead. And I'm not even an expert in using shells; I just use basic history search, and never have to type in a complex command more than once, even if I need to change some of the arguments.

What GUIs let you do efficiently is browse your files, and the like.

[Dekent]

Can you sit slouched up with your feet on the desk with one hand on the tv remote and the other on the mouse and use a command line? No? Case closed

[Pocus]

if GUI were not easier, people would still use dos based apps for data-managing commercial products, which is clearly not the case.

If I have comboboxes wich show me say the units of Marignon, or the list of all pretenders, and that I have just to click on the line I want to choose a name, then I think we can assume thats its easier and less error prone that do have to manually type that I want a Daughter of River as a pretender, for example.
GUI ask for room on your screen, thats true.

[ December 14, 2003, 06:57: Message edited by: Pocus ]

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Originally posted by Dekent:
GUI is easier?

No way. With a decent shell, the command line is leagues ahead. And I'm not even an expert in using shells; I just use basic history search, and never have to type in a complex command more than once, even if I need to change some of the arguments.

Depends on what you mean by easier. If you mean easier to get it to do what YOU want then maybe. Command line is almost always more powerful, with more options. Especially for chaining programs together or scripting things.

Id have to say that GUI are easier but also limiting. They can be easier for doing whatever the programmer has decided to let you do.

--
THERE IS NO BEST, THERE IS ONLY PRO AND CON

[ December 14, 2003, 14:00: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Pocus:
if GUI were not easier, people would still use dos based apps for data-managing commercial products, which is clearly not the case.

If I have comboboxes wich show me say the units of Marignon, or the list of all pretenders, and that I have just to click on the line I want to choose a name, then I think we can assume thats its easier and less error prone that do have to manually type that I want a Daughter of River as a pretender, for example.
GUI ask for room on your screen, thats true.

Let's not get started too far down this road...

A GUI is often easier when you're using an application. The command line, by definition, describes the launching of the application.

Some tasks are much simplified when you have an easy time accessing the information you want to organize (which I said in my post, under the generic term of "browsing"). But when it comes to issuing the right commands, with the right arguments, repeatedly, it's much easier to use a good shell (the old default DOS shell is NOT a good one).

What triggered my initial reply to Dekent was the affirmation that "GUI is (almost) easier".
I don't agree with this, in (almost) any possible sense of the word "almost"