Supercombattant pretenders....what about...

[Daynarr]

You can use crossbows to take out SC's. Just give them order fire large monsters. In larger Groups with aim spell they can be deadly for them even in early stages.

But there are some items that really shine against them.


Piercer (crossbow):

Damage: 12 (armor negating)
Precision: 10
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs: 5 earth and 5 air gems
2nd construction level and earth 1+air 1 mage.

You can get this one in demo. Just give it to some cheap nature mage (druid or cheaper will do), give him order to cast eagle eyes and fire large monsters.


Ethereal Crossbow I call this SC killer.

Damage: 999 (armor negating) - whatever it hits, it kills.
Precision: 5
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs 5 astral gems!!!!!!!!!
Requires astral level 1 mage and level 6 in construction.

This thing is even cheaper to build then Piercer and is just plain deadly.
Method to use is similar to Piercer, but the effect is much better. You can also build eye that increases precision and give it to your commander for increased hit ratio.

Air shield gives 80% protection against missiles so its possible to hit SC even with air shield on. You just need to field a group of those sniper-commanders.

[MStavros]

Originally posted by apoger:
>Anyways I've made a topic about this, reply there if you want.

-Ok I'm here-

I like the idea of having mages/spells that would help repel super combatants.

For example, I never use my combatants versus a lizard province. They have lizard shaman that almost always "curse" my combatants.

This is perfect. If there were a few more ways that mages could potentially hurt a SC, players could use these spells for defense, plus the computer could scatter a few mages around in indy provinces to deter using SC to steam roll at the game start.

That way we can have the strategy of SC's, but also counters for it. If we force pretenders to stay at home or remove the SC abilities, it weakens the game by removing options. I like adding options rather than losing.

Ok than how can you stop the pretender SC abuse?
MAYBE the players can defend against it, but the AI is screwed.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
You can use crossbows to take out SC's. Just give them order fire large monsters. In larger Groups with aim spell they can be deadly for them even in early stages.

But there are some items that really shine against them.


Piercer (crossbow):

Damage: 12 (armor negating)
Precision: 10
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs: 5 earth and 5 air gems
2nd construction level and earth 1+air 1 mage.

You can get this one in demo. Just give it to some cheap nature mage (druid or cheaper will do), give him order to cast eagle eyes and fire large monsters.


Ethereal Crossbow I call this SC killer.

Damage: 999 (armor negating) - whatever it hits, it kills.
Precision: 5
Attacks: 1 per 2 rounds
Range: 35
Ammo: 12
Costs 5 astral gems!!!!!!!!!
Requires astral level 1 mage and level 6 in construction.

This thing is even cheaper to build then Piercer and is just plain deadly.
Method to use is similar to Piercer, but the effect is much better. You can also build eye that increases precision and give it to your commander for increased hit ratio.

Air shield gives 80% protection against missiles so its possible to hit SC even with air shield on. You just need to field a group of those sniper-commanders.

Ah yes, I forgot the Piercer. Not great against regenerating SC though - you need several hits per round to overcome regeneration. Except combined with Curse, of course - then you will probably cause some afflictions even if you don't kill the SC immediately.

In Dom I, the Ethereal Crossbow allowed a MR save - the target was only killed if it failed. Most supercombatants have high MR. Was this actually changed in Dom II, or does it still have the MR save? If the latter, then Piercers combined with Curse would probably be more effective.

[johan osterman]

There is also visions foe, an armor negating arbalest that causes eye loss. do not recall research level.

[Sammual]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
There is also visions foe, an armor negating arbalest that causes eye loss. do not recall research level.

I hate Eye loss... I really do.
In all 5 games I have played with any sort of SC by turn 40 they never had any eyes left. What is it with Giants and missing eyes. *sigh*

Sammual - The Blind

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Sammual:
I hate Eye loss... I really do.
In all 5 games I have played with any sort of SC by turn 40 they never had any eyes left. What is it with Giants and missing eyes. *sigh*

Sammual - The Blind

I never take a Cyclops, for that reason. Seriously - he takes a couple provinces, and even staying in the back casting spells, the first time he runs into a couple indy archers, they do like 1 damage and blind him. Through 30 protection or whatever. Cyclopses are inaccurate enough even WITH an eye.

[ November 03, 2003, 06:43: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Jasper]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
There is also visions foe, an armor negating arbalest that causes eye loss. do not recall research level.

This looked pretty nasty, although you need air and death. I expect to see things like Valor shields
more frequently.

It also makes the Cyclops alot less attractive. ;-)

[MStavros]

Originally posted by -Storm-:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Particle:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
A good strategic AI is extremely difficult to implement, and it's NOT that important.

Actually it is VERY important.

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Nope, it's not - because there are easy and effective workarounds for single player. I provided two, but it seems you forgot to read them.

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Nagot, you are wrong. The overall quality of the strategic AI is very important, regardless of your suggestion. Don't forget that the SP part is now very important, since we have a huge SP playerbase in Dominions II. Yes Doms I. was different, but things have been changed, thanks to Shrapnel.
IW want to make money, and at least half of the players who will buy Dominions II. will prefer SP. [I think that even lot more.]
So IW must do their best with the SP part as well, regardless of your opinion. You are living in the past. This is not Dominions I.

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Yes yes.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by -Storm-:
Nagot, you are wrong. (...) You are living in the past.

And you guys seem to live on a strange planet with no future. JO already said JK felt rather reluctant to do further work on the AI, and you keep on pestering him to answer to your AI worries. You obviously have no idea how difficult it is to implement a good strategic AI, so much so than improving the current one is almost guaranteed to be a waste of time and effort. So OK, keep on dreaming, it doesn't hurt anyone. I truly hope for you that eventually IW will prove me wrong, but I wouldn't bet a cent on it.

This is not Dominions I.

Well, may I remind you that KO himself said Doms II is essentially Doms 1 (with a few tweaks and additions, obviously) plus a revamped interface.

[Mortifer]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
JO already said JK felt rather reluctant to do further work on the AI, and you keep on pestering him to answer to your AI worries.

Where did you read about this? I am kinda shocked by this statement.

This means that the hella lot of Posts / suggestions about 'how to improve the strategic AI' were totally pointless?
Are you kidding?
Also what is your point at all? I don't understad you. We all know that you are a multiplayer, and no one cares about this. No one was whining about that.

You are constantly flaming the people, who trying to make suggestions about the strategic AI. I think that at least 60% of the players would be lot happier with a better strategical AI. You know this is not a MP game only. Yes we are near this annoying topic once again.

I haven't seen a constructive post from you about the strategical AI, you are just babbling about the same thing over and over.

[ November 03, 2003, 11:42: Message edited by: Mortifer ]