Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by PvK:

In the interest of keeping the 2.x series relatively consistent for upgrading existing games-in-progress
PvK

PvK, you can't keep holding back because of existing games. People that wants to keep playing an old game just need to not upgrade and that's all.
I would really like to see a reworked fighter model for the sake of realism, cause there is no way a fighter could keep flying around for an entire month.
Also, fighters should be at least twice as fast as the fastest ship in tactical mode. The way it is a Frigate can outrun a fighter in combat....

I did a test with fighters that moves with speed 10 in tactical combat, and the AI didn't do the bombing runs as well as a human player can, flying 5 to target, fire, and fly back, but the AI did fly to the target, fire, wait for next turn, then fire again, and then fly back out of range of enemy weapons.

[PvK]

Aloofi, I'm not delaying the release of new features because of existing games. I do think though that I'd rather not add much more to the 2.x series beyond fixes, and instead do 3.x or Foundations, and that will be a major project if I even have time for it.

The reason I don't want to just add small features one after another, is that I'm pretty happy with where 2.5.3 is, and if I'm going to devote a bunch more time to modding, I'd like to explore some of the larger ideas I have, rather than just add little things one at a time. The ideas overlap in some ways, so it would really be best to try to apply them all at once, instead of a bit at a time. Examples are the major changes I'm interested in making to the research system, mounts, racial tech areas, weapon abilities, and resource costs. I could make a fighter mod, but it would be more total work, because I'd need to make it work with the OLD system for all that stuff, and then go re-do much of it if I wanted to apply it to the new system. As I said, I'm happy enough with the way fighters work now.

Yes, fighters deploying for months sounds a bit much, but I don't think it's that impossible. A fighter squadron could pack supplies and even have some sort of "squadron space tent" or something so they could relax and interact while waiting for action. I think it's more likely than some of the other abilities some people have insisted should exist, like fast colonization of any planet from a single uber-device, computers that are better in all ways than the race that builds them, cultural development and scientific advancement based on industry and real estate on alien planets, or freeze-dried colonists.

As for increasing fighter speeds, first, I don't think you're correct that in general frigates are faster than fighters in Proportions. There are some tech levels where this may be true, but more research into fighters will let their combat speeds catch up and exceed most ships. A small fighter with quantum engines and mark III afterburners has combat speed 9, which is the same as a scout with quantum engines and gravitic drive III. Most ships are much slower than that, and those that are that fast are paying the price in small hull and heavy supply consumption.

I don't think I understand your premise that fighters should be twice the speed of any ship, anyway. Seems to me it's not unreasonable for a small ship specializing in speed to be able to keep up with a fighter, especially if it is using more than one technology to do it (gravitic + quantum), or the fighters have just been developed (ion engines and no afterburners).

PvK

[JLS]

I like Proportions a lot, and Peter (PvK), is a stand up guy...
With that said.

AI Campaign is a group of Mods that address some AI issues, not in Proportions but in Space Empires 4 in general, and we all know what these issues were and are.

PvK, you know from my Emails that SE4 with Proportions ; in my opinion and the opinion of many; is the best, SPACE Game on the market today.
That is why I wanted Proportion to be the Host for AIC.
This is going back to Last may 2002.

I look forward to the release of Proportions 3.0� I am sure it will be inspired.

And like you said you have not had time for distractions.
I too, when I was working on AIC, before its release.

As this relates to Fighters !!! Look we can�t even find your fighter post (now)!
I didn�t log in much then, so is it not possible it was missed by myself. You, really should bring that (unedited) post to the front PVK

In regards using aspects of your (�future fighter Ideas�). As you stated, I sent you the Email on the how the AI can get slaughtered with strategic fighter movement as well as sending you some of my fighter designs for AIC. Long before the release of AIC and its Fighter Tactical Mod.
There, is when you should have said you were at Issue with this.

I am surprised, you chose to Post this now.
~~~
When I sent you that Fighter Email with my designs, you replied the next day:

�Yea, I used the in Foundations� Then, went on to say what you had for Foundations"""".
Well, I never seen Foundations, but its files must have been real Huge!!! Because it seems, that any time somebody had a good Idea for Proportions, you said �all ready had the in Foundations�.

Actually, this is the same thing you said to me when I presented to you; �that I felt the AI was also getting a bum deal with having to use Natural Merchants Trait to be more efficient in se4, that if you put Resupply and a Space Port on Settlements and Urban centers; as well as, sending you my Design called MAJOR PORT that included resupply and Space Port�
Your reply was the same thing (�I used this in Foundations�)
Sure enough, my (JLS) Ideas were out on your next 2.x upgrade.
With the Resupply and Space Port on some Urban centers and The MP renamed Combo Facilities (which was my major Port design).

Fool me once
If you already had it in Foundations!?!
Then, why is it not here in, Proportions (NOW) after all these years???
~~~~~

This will not happen with Tactical Fighter Mod.
It is my Ideas my LABOR, not yours.

True, it needs to be tweaked (allot ) as well as Proportions (some); but still, I put your name on EVERY file that had the (slightest) programming of yours, please verify this.

I (we) do expect the same curtsy .

John

[ March 13, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[dogscoff]

I (we) do expect the same curtsy

*Dogscoff curtsies courteously.

JLS, PvK has often told me that my suggestions overlap with foundations, but in these cases he has said that it overlaps with what he has planned for Foundations. he never claimed to have implemented it already in order to steal my glory.

[JLS]

Originally posted by dogscoff:

quote:

---

I (we) do expect the same curtsy

*Dogscoff curtsies courteously.

JLS, PvK has often told me that my suggestions overlap with foundations, but in these cases he has said that it overlaps with what he has planned for Foundations. he never claimed to have implemented it already in order to steal my glory.

---

I agree.
I never said he was stealing my glory!

As you can see; PvK, POSTED and implied that I STOLE his fighter Idea.
This is not true!

PvK has put a flame to our bridge, not I.

[JLS]

Originally posted by PvK:
JLS,

yes I remember we discussed tactical fighters some time ago, and that it would help remove an advantage humans have against the AI (since the AI isn't programmed to move fighters around a system).
"
"
I assume it is a refinement of the AI balance mod to Proportions which you showed me some months ago?

PvK

No, PvK,

"Assume" Tactical Fighter Mod is related to the Email I sent you after Christmas 2002. As you just confirmed at the TOP of your post.

The AI balance segment that was started May 2002 and sent to you around Thank Giving 2002.

You, have never received the FULL Version of AIC.
(good thing; from what is being seen now)

[ March 13, 2003, 19:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by PvK:
JLS,
"
"
I don't mind if you want to use my reworking of fighters in your AIC mod - the only obstacle is you'll need to wait for me to work out what the details are. I'm pretty busy at present, and haven't even had time to study AIC yet - I assume it is a refinement of the AI balance mod to Proportions which you showed me some months ago?

PvK

Since you want to POST who had time to get what done in Proportions !!!

PvK,
I made time: to help you with your released Proportions; when the AI was just building Culture Centers on all colonies, ages ago.

I Had time: To help the AI to be more efficient with (resupply and space dock on there Urban Centers).
Designing and Emailing you the Major port/Combo Facility and some Race specific Urban Centers.

I noticed that you have had one of my Specific Urban Center designs that I Emailed you back then. You put it in Proportions Facility Data file, and you Still can�t get it to work with the AI???
(refer to AI Campaigns; Agrarian Culture Center, that is how it was to be done)

Now, I see you have My Colony Ship with (CARGO no module) design that I may have sent you Last thanks giving, with AI Balance MOD in your Proportions Vehicle Dat file.
What, you could not get that to work with the AI either? as with my Agrarian design.(Again, refer to AIC; that is how it is to be done and see a (*) with Colonizable. Planets!)

I made time: Getting your AI to Build and Utilize your STAR LINER !!! By telling you to add cargo as one there needed abilities. Then, I had to send you the Design, because you could not understand what I was asking you to do�

I made time: To help you with a Psychic race: Abbidon. Only to see you mess up by copying the GAS Abbidon AI, I made, to the ROCK Nat. Merch. CueCappa????

There are more countless improvements to help your AI in Proportions that I have Suggested to you, and I was not to "busy at present"!
~
IS the Armor Plating REALLY your Idea; or is it someone else helping you with that to?
~
Heck, you couldn�t even help the Proportions Player {Mottlee} with his Proportions Prob. the other day. Posting him you could not figure it out ??? send it to Malfador;
As well as asking Oleg and My self for help� At that time as you can see I was trying to cover your back, and not make you look ridicules and stupid since it was only a SIMPLE design flaw on troop weapons choice for YOUR Amonkrie;
by solving just the Problem and not Posting on questions what it was, by players. Also inaudibly suggesting that the UFP and Gron AI, could also be problematic.

Well, I guess I said, what I had to say.

I can�t believe you would post that I used your (Reworking Fighters ), based on what? Your IMPLIED (long past) POST, PvK.


[ March 14, 2003, 01:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

When somebody has the solution for the world not requiring Oil any longer.

Are you going to say that was your Idea, because you were going to use it in Foundations?

Or you posted it as Etc. at one time, long ago?

Come on PvK.
Either have it in Proportions or not!

[ March 13, 2003, 20:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Aloofi]

JLS, cool down man, the Last thing we want to see is fighting between modders.
Aren't mods suppose to be public?
Just take Proportions and merge it with the AIC and the Tactical fighter Mod.
If you don't, I will.
I definitively want an improved fighter combat model with Proportions.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
JLS, cool down man, the Last thing we want to see is fighting between modders.
Aren't mods suppose to be public?
Just take Proportions and merge it with the AIC and the Tactical fighter Mod.
If you don't, I will.
I definitively want an improved fighter combat model with Proportions.

Hehe, Aic IS the merge of Proportions with some JLC ideas