MP: YARG3, non newb MA+ENP2 RAND game. Executor's Ulm winner on turn 76

[Calahan]

I've already posted some Svar bugs for Ex to fix (no prizes now Ex for guessing how I noticed them ). Guess I could give some feedback on them as well when I get chance. They didn't seem too out of whack to me though, but hard to judge from what I saw, although perhaps a freespawn strat for them will be good once they don't have crippling upkeep

Mages felt a little on the cheap side perhaps. Sacred S2 with FTelling for 130gp. I know I would have been spamming the crap out of them if I played them from the get go. And D1 with decent chances to get D2S1B1 for just 80gp, again that feels a bit cheap to me.

Checked out the various summons when I subbed in, but they all had upkeep so were instantly off-putting to a nation dying from upkeep. Objectively though...(this is going by mix of the game and the newest version I downloaded today)

Todoroc - A sacred unit with fear and costing 7D for 5. Not the best stats, but not bad either, and at that price they are cheap and fear stacking can be huge. Conj 4 feels too early for fear stackers, and even sooner for an Astral nation that is likely going for PoTS/LoNS early on anyway.

Drekavac - Seem like a more mage turn effective Shade. Not sure how good their weapons are though as didn't test them. If they are good they could be too cheap and too mage turn effective.

Ala - A4 flying stack of HP for 32A. What's not to like. Probably too cheap for an A4, but then it is an Airy nation, so it might be ok to have it cheap as a national special (and having a summon like this cheap is not the same as having a troop/Sc cheap as not much point spamming A4 buffers.)

Moria - I saw no use for these at all unless I'm missing something about them. As 16N for what is basically a Bane Venom Charm is very pricey (and it triggers upon summing rather than giving you a turn to move them out as you can with the item).

Talason - The spell version is pointless as they come as freespawn on a unit you are very very likely to summon. Unit itself seems fine as it's just a buffed Ghoul with CR.

Babica - Cause unrest (text, not tested) so will have niche uses.

Karakon - Same as above but with assasian.

Navi + Vampir - Both will likely see a lot of usage. Both are probably way too cheap, but then everything in Blood is way too cheap, so it's currently like pricing Ming cases in a $1 shop. Vampirs will see more use than Navi's though as hunters and spawners, so they are more in need of increase (maybe 66, the old Vamp price). A flying B2 thug with fear 5 and a load of HP for 45BS. Must be too cheap, but then more expensive and they start competing with other dirt cheap Blood stuff. Honestly not sure.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

In first YARG a player subbed for just a turn or two and then he (the sub) attacked me thus starting a war. When the original player took over (two turns later IIRC) the war was already raging and he had no idea, until the game ended, of what the sub did. This episode was also game changing since we both controlled strong nations that could have made a big difference talk about

I've got a curious sub story from YARG 1 as well. Utgard and Pan were whacking crap out of each other over the Aby cap, so with Utgard as a neighbour I took that chance to improve my fortunes with an attack on Caelum. But then Ano (Pan) subbed out, and then all of a sudden the Utgard-Pan war completely stopped in an instant, which left Utgard with a free shot on my fully occupied hands. Not sure how that war stopped, but doubt it would have without the sub handover.

[Curious Yellow]

Re: Wraithlord.

I had to really go back and look at the turns, because it happened half a year ago and I couldn't remember exactly how our war started except being sure that you started it.

At turn 43, I was fighting C'tis and we were both finishing off Marignon. Turn 44 you suddenly teleported in and took provinces 142 and 155. Granted none of them belonged to me at the time (they were Marignon's), but suddenly you took two provinces that pretty clearly were going to fall to me as spoils of war, and the two provinces didn't even connect to the rest of your empire! I felt I couldn't really let that stand, but didn't want to go to proper war with you. So on turn 45 I attacked just those two provinces to take them back and hoped it sent a message that you couldn't just snipe provinces from my back yard like that. Apparently you took it as a declaration of war, but in my mind it was just a natural response to your actions.

As for why I failed to attack Ulm - I wasn't really positioned to do so. Thing is that Pangea wasn't dead and my grasp of the Eastern part of my lands was really tenuous. I had no forts there and didn't think I could hold Ulm/Ashdod back if they attacked me. On the other hand I was bordering C'tis who had three capitals and I thought I had a decent chance of taking him down. So to me he was a natural target - and I was really hoping you and Svarogia would team up and go against Ulm.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Valerius

Another interesting thing about this game is that you had several mod nations. Any feedback on how they fit in? I have admit that I'm wary of mod nations because despite their frequently excellent quality, I'm never sure what OP surprises are hidden inside them. I think part of it is just mod makers getting caught up in their creation - it's tough to leave things out, not because they aren't thematic, but because it would just be too much. But I may just be scarred from seeing rdonj's Itza and Exec's Stygia in the Tourmaline game. And I thought my own nation of Haida Gwaii and Alugra, that defeated me, were plenty strong as well. The only one that I remember thinking was weak were the Ogres because they were so one dimensional - really tough troops but absolutely horrible magic IIRC (this was several years ago so this may be out-of-date from how these nations are now).

Itza and alugra have both been changed since then. Alugra mostly had some small changes that went a long way... encumbrance added onto the smiths, things like that. But they don't seem anywhere like OP to me right now. Itza lost the ability to recruit their sacreds altogether, and their slann cost EVEN MOAR now, due to having the temple guard as retinues (one off domsummons). They still have plenty of good points, but I wouldn't call them pythium 2.0 anymore :P

Stygia, on the other hand, remains exactly as it was and is a testament to Amos mods everywhere.

[Slobby]

Game over congratz Executor!

Mmmm recap, pretender wise took the VQ with earth/air/death/blood, and went with Baalz goblin strat. The idea for the VQ was to get vampires plus have a nice immortal teleporting rain of stones caster. Issues with the VQ: the domsummon for vamps is incredibly low - sucked balls really, the vast majority of those vamps she blood hunted for and summoned. Near the end when fighting Exec I decided to get father illearth instead of a vamp lord...big mistake as father illearth was taken! And with that I just had my VQ to lead my vamps around...and I felt she would be better off in defense to cast spells then run off with vamps that Exec could just slaughter at his whim.

Early progression - launched a double assault on Arco and Arga then Ashdod came in to which my reaction was screw you if you think you're taking Arga lands! Which led to Ulm and I beating down Ashdod.

That brought it to mid game Van Sva and Eriu were fighting one another Ulm was just chilling and so was Ctis. From my point of view Ulm was the leader and I felt the desire to take him on but how? No diplo and Ctis apparently turtling and Ulm being big and bad.

I then summoned some Harvesters of Sorrow with the idea of making Exec think that Ctis or Van was messing with him, geared em up and snuck them through Vans lands to have them approach Ulm from Van/Ctis territory. Sadly I got over ambitious and just when they were right there Exec caught me sneaking in some largeish goblin raiders and war was on with no help in sight.

Then having a good idea that it was Exec I was against I felt it fitting that I try an aggressive volcanic erution attack to mess with his eco. (still playing mistletoe because of your arma spam Exec!) That didn't seem to work out I figure Exec just cranked his taxes because I noticed no noticeable drop in his income, and I hit him with ALOT of volcanic eruptions.

Mono a mono it was no contest. Grendels and Treants running around, large Ulmish armies with tons of commanders with bows and army of gold plus other buffs. I had nothing to fight that. All I could do was raid and try to force Exec to take one province at a time.

Which as some of you have asked about me not sending my other force to defend the cap...there was no point in doing so. His army would have won and then I would have been truly done. Atleast by keeping that other force alive I still had something to harass/threaten Exec with.

[Executor]

Tourmaline, fun game. Battle of the OP. Who was the dude that took over for me and managed to lose a dozen immortal crazy powerful SCs?

Calahan, so I guess in short everything is too cheap? I tend to agree with this statement upping the price won't solve the problem. I priced most stuff compared to CBM and other popular active mods. If I increase the cost on some stuff they are just going to fade away I think. So it's hard to find balance.

Todoroc should get a slight cost increase and be moved up a notch in conjuration though. Though they are a bit hard to use since they increase unrest and can be used periodically since they have spring power. Also, any arrow fire is just murderous for them since they have no armor and low protection.

Sudjajas were specifically priced upon MA TC mages. That I remember, comparing them to Geomancer which I still find better overall. Svarogia has another big flaw with all the mages being demons.

Ala got improved now when there are no hammers. A mobile staff of storms for 32 gems. A hammered staff of storms was 17 gems before. The A4 I've added just. So like I said it's all quite relative.

Vampir was based on LA Ulm vampires. Though in truth mine are better. And this was when regular vampire were 70ish slaves. I doubt they would have been a good option had they been more expensive.

As for Drekavac, I think they are excellent but people think they are bad on the other hand. I consider them a much better version of shades since that one shot fear attack can insta rout an army.

Mora mage, you're the first one to say they are any good. Most people complained how they are useless without blood rodes for blood hunting. Perhaps they are on the cheap side at 75 gold for the magic they can get randomly.

Good point on the Moria.

Navi should have some nice options with communions. As they are now I think they're good. They were probably overpriced before the blood summon price increase. It's hard to compare one of them to a 66 blood slave Ice Devil. At least I think so.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the feedback as always but there are a lot of things to take into consideration when balancing prices. In any case I'll take these suggestion into consideration before for the new game.

[Slobby]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

I plan for YARG IV to be in LA. No mod nations. Latest CBM.

Whoever wants in can say so now. I'll put up a new thread in a day or two.

Given the blood soaked tradition of YARG games I think we have every reason to believe YARG IV would be action packed and fun.

I'm in for YARG4

[Executor]

I found it curious those Harvester emerged where they did. Figured you moved them trough C'tis land but didn't understand to what purpose? Good to know.

Yes, Ashdod made some very funky moves. Already fully engaged in war with me he moved onto Arga Dis as well. Maybe he was just overconfident he could kill us both.

The volcanic eruptions killed quite a lot actually! Ashdod, TC and my cap were bellow 10000 pop. And at least a dozen other high pop lands were hit multiple times as well. I think you killed close to 100000.
But I tried to tax out any gold site I found and taxing out your provinces helped keep the illusion there was little damage.
But even after most of your lands were captured my income was barely bigger than when I attacked you.

I got the feeling you were just waiting to get killed or hoping help would come once those 5 armies rolled into your territory.

[rdonj]

That was Septimius Severus. My favorite moment was when he jumped one onto an unscripted and ungeared wraithlord I had in my territory (I couldn't care less if it died as I was moving it to my cap) and it killed the immortal SC with skelly spam.

[don_Pablo]

C’tis joins the congratulations to Executor!

Also I can’t but beg your pardon for my passive play for the last 30 turn (or so). I was pressed by RL but did not want to leave the game. Spending no more than 20 min for turn hurt me a lot (f.e. casting Earth well under AC I gave S gems but was mistaken with battle-spell scripting and the order to cast Returning was given to another mage but not the needed one).

I saw the necessity to attack Ulm early.
But the first time it was aborted by Eriu (our war started with his cloud-trapezing ang killing 6 poison golems kitted out to deal with armies of Marignon but not with thugs). That was too painful for that moment.
Later I dragged out because of shortage of time for MM.

Attacking me by Eriu was unexpected but explicable. As for his attack vs Vanheim and Svarogia were thought to be just suicidal.

One of the most funny part of the party was regular duels of my pretender vs Hunter of heroes. Thanks to horror-marking by Marignon I remember ~5 visits of Hunter of heroes, ~3 of Eater of Gods and many of simple horrors.

Speaking of YARG4 I’d like to join but will have to skip it if you eager to start soon. It would be ideally for me to start in August.