Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available

[PvK]

The cargo ability allowing SYS on transport hulls is intentional. There are some other components that also benefit from that (supply storage, for example). This creates an interesting design choice, in addition to introducing SYS before cruiser-sized warships. That is, players have a choice between less capable (slower, bad combat ability) support ships at reduced cost, or expensive Versions with the same speed and ability levels as warships (minus the tonnage for the support components).

Unfortunately, the AI seems to have no ability to use SYS to any advantage, even if they can be made to build them.

...

As for JLS's questions about effects of the proposed computers change on existing games... it could be made so the AI would phase out the MC's. Human players wanting them would then need to research the new tech area to get them. It's not a very elegant solution, but it seems better to me than the alternatives I can think of at the moment.

PTF's suggestion about reducing subverter accuracy is another way to possibly help.

Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by PvK:
Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech.

Noooo !

EDIT: I do not even think subverters need to get more disadvantages. They are very late in proportions tech tree, they just can be fired once per combat and there is still the disadvantage of a cascade effect. MCs have been changed more to a not wanted component for the important human ship designs (accuracy malus, bad defense, expensive), other than for a small base with not enough space in it I have not used MCs so far because of too many malusses. And I do not even think about using them to compete against subverters, there are better defense capabilities (long range weapons, faster ships etc.).

[ March 06, 2003, 10:39: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[Aloofi]

I would support that idea of getting rid of the Psychic tech.......

[Aloofi]

Also, yesterday I researched the EMC III and the EMC I-b, but when I clicked on the upgrade button in the design screen my EMC II went to the EMC I-b instead of the EMC III. I suppose this is a bug or something, cause the EMC III is far better than the EMC I-b.
Is it there any use for the EMC I-b other than the fact that they only take 5kt?

[oleg]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
Also, yesterday I researched the EMC III and the EMC I-b, but when I clicked on the upgrade button in the design screen my EMC II went to the EMC I-b instead of the EMC III. I suppose this is a bug or something, cause the EMC III is far better than the EMC I-b.
Is it there any use for the EMC I-b other than the fact that they only take 5kt?

Are you playing the latest Version of Proportions ? I though PvK get rid of this glitch. Anyway, I think it happens with ECM III only, once you get to ECM IV, it should upgrade normally (I think)

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by oleg:
Are you playing the latest Version of Proportions ? I though PvK get rid of this glitch. Anyway, I think it happens with ECM III only, once you get to ECM IV, it should upgrade normally (I think)

Yeah, I'm playing 2.53 with the 1.84 patch.
I'll get to EMC IV in couple turns, so I'll just not upgrade untill I get it. I have 5 combat designs to upgrade and there is not way I'm doing it by hand... .
You know, i'm one of those nutcase gamers that always keep the components in a design in order, like Bridge-Crew-LifeSupport-ShieldDepleter-MainGuns-PDCs-Sensors-Shields-Supply-Engines-Armor, so I would have to take the whole design apart to put the EMC III were sensors are suppose to be....

By the way, one of the most wonderful things of Proportions is how small hulls remain usefull way after they become obsolete in the unmodded game. Its almost impossible for my little Empire to afford more than one of those Dreadnaughts!
I used to play with 2 designs at most in the unmodded game because pound by pound a Dreadnaught was more cost efficient that any smaller ship, something I find completely unrealistic in a military vessel.

[JLS]

Originally posted by PvK:
Unfortunately, the AI seems to have no ability to use SYS to any advantage, even if they can be made to build them.
PvK

Agreed on the AI�s use of the SYS, remember PvK we spent weeks Last year, trying to get the AI to build on them other then hanging out at the home world, we came so close, just to find the AI also would build Colony Ships away from a habituated planet then sending the ship off to colonize with no POP

Originally posted by PvK:

Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech.
PvK

In regards to separate �patches� what would that do to Multiplayer?

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
A bit off topic (I mean out of this specific question):
Medium Transporters with SY components. I have not yet found an AI race using this cheap solution, at least they don't use it in the later states of a game 60-100 years.
My question to PvK, was it even intended? If so, I think some AI ship designs could be improved by this, if not, I guess the cargo capabilities of SY components will be removed soon (3.00 Foundations).

PsychoTechFreak,
If you would check out the Abbidon and Cue Cappa from Proportions races, you will notice I put Cargo Ability on their Mine Layers, Satellite & Drone launchers as well as other Support Ships. Allowing there use In ST, MT and Large Transports. AI uses them very well

[ March 06, 2003, 15:09: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

quote:

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Originally posted by PvK:
Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech.

Noooo !

EDIT: I do not even think subverters need to get more disadvantages.

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I am with you here, PsychoTechFreak.

I also like the way PvK has the subverters fine tuned, as is now.

[JLS]

For any one interested, I wrote this post Last year in regards to Space Yard Ships (SYS) in relation to some neat creative/inventive abuse�s.

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NAV : posted May 20, 2002 01:17
Private
Member # 2879

Originally posted by PvK:
A group that has been playing Proportions multi-player LAN games on weekends has suggested removing the ability to put shipyards on medium (or larger) transport hulls, because it with the ~30% maintenance reduction, it makes a really powerful and economical mine/satellite layer in Proportions.

~ Regarding Space Yards on cheap transports, in itself is fine, even though the AI does not make good/same use as Humans do.

But us crafty human players put a sat or mine Launching bay on it and bring it to our warp point, in 2 turns we build enough mines to stop any Incursion probe, in 3 more turns we have enough built and launched to probably stop the AIs entire Incursion. 5 more turns-we have enough mines from that Mine Fabricator built and launched, to stop the AIs Attack State sending it Back to infrastructure State to rebuild and try again.

Also goes on to say

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...3;t=005496;p=3

[ March 06, 2003, 16:10: Message edited by: JLS ]