OT: A.D.D.

[Slynky]

I "hear" ya, Will. And I think I understand. Beleive me, I hope our daughter can "grow out of her hyperactivity" somehow. We are not a family that believes a pill is the answer to everything. Even now, when she stubs (stumps?) her toe, she wants a "pain" pill. And we explain to her she doesn't need one. She still thinks bandaids stop pain (even though we tell her bandaids are for protecting a cut).

But, as you said, and I think I agree if I understand you correctly, the US has become, to some degree, a nation that thinks the answer to any problem is a pill. Part of that is marketing efforts by the people who stand to make a profit from selling them. The other part, perhaps, is the average US citizen's response to a problem by denying any of it is their own fault and that they can fix it themselves...i.e., whatever bad happens to someone is not THEIR fault, but something else...either a medical excuse or something that someone else is to be blamed for.

[edit] As a side note, I researched Adderall as best I could on the I'Net. Weirdly enough, one of the main ingredients is basically an "upper". Go figure! An "upper" to cure hyperactivity? Strange!

[ July 20, 2003, 14:10: Message edited by: Slynky ]

[macjimmy]

I don't know much about ADD and such, but it seems like this condition was more or less unheard of before the widespread use of computers, TV, cell phones, and other hi tech distractions. I could be wrong, but maybe ADD has more to do with being exposed to attention-grabbing TV ads, thru computers, etc from a young age. Of course schoolwork would seem boring in comparison to these colorful and noisy toys. Not to say that there aren't any legit cases though, just that most of it is probably enviromental in its ultimate cause.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by macjimmy:
I don't know much about ADD and such, but it seems like this condition was more or less unheard of before the widespread use of computers, TV, cell phones, and other hi tech distractions. I could be wrong, but maybe ADD has more to do with being exposed to attention-grabbing TV ads, thru computers, etc from a young age. Of course schoolwork would seem boring in comparison to these colorful and noisy toys. Not to say that there aren't any legit cases though, just that most of it is probably enviromental in its ultimate cause.

Possibly true. BUT, there is a possibility that it has always existed and children like this were just thought to be discipline problems. I felt that way at first. I just thought she was obstinate and spoiled.

All I know is that she is still energetic (not a "zombie"), eats VERY well, and makes good grades. She reads well (above average) and people remark on her vocabulary and speech all the time...which isn't bad considering she's growing up in the south (ugh!). Before the "pill", she lagged in all those areas.

So, with a bit of tear in my eye, I'm glad she has that pill so that she can be all that she and we want her to be.

OK...I'm done. (sorry)

[macjimmy]

It is good to hear that these meds to good in some situations. I have a rather cynical view of the whole medical "industry" in general, including pharmecutical (sp?) and insurance companies, but if it works for even a small number of people, then overall it is a better thing to have than not.

[Mephisto]

ADD is quite common but often not diagnosed. I have a family member that surely had an ADD syndrome if you read his school grades (from the 1950s).
People with ADD cannot focus themselves to a thing for more then a short amount of time. Every little distortion will break their concentration. A "normal" person can ignore a mutter in a bar when he is talking to another person and won't notice it any longer. Not so an ADD person. It hears all the mutters and the person he is talking to the same (and loud!) and cannot concentrate for long.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by macjimmy:
It is good to hear that these meds to good in some situations. I have a rather cynical view of the whole medical "industry" in general, including pharmecutical (sp?) and insurance companies, but if it works for even a small number of people, then overall it is a better thing to have than not.

I doubt there are many more people more cynical than me. 30 years in government service will help that out a bit. After all, I'm the one who wonders if the people who make tissue add stuff to it that makes people's noses run (and therefore, need MORE tissue )

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Will:
The way I'm understanding the current definition of it, someone who has ADD will be focused/energetic in some situations, and distracted/tired in others. To me, it seems it could be better explained by: mood swings, personal interest or disinterest in a subject, different sleeping habits (think of a programmer), or any of many other explanations. Differences in interests and aptitudes are not a mental abnormality, and cannot (should not!)be "fixed" by popping some pills.

Ding! Ding! You win the prize for this round of "Truth and Consequences"...

The 'problem' with the vast majority of kids OR adults diagnosed with 'ADD' is that they don't deal well with the regimentation of modern industrial slave society. Year after year the 'employers' have obsessively struggled to squeeze more and more performance out of the proles so they can rack up more 'points' in the bank/stock market and claim to be 'better businessmen' than their rival 'employers'.

In Ye Olde Dayes you just had to go plant the stuff you were told to plant in Spring and bring in the hay/wheat/turnips or whatever when it was ready. Not very intensely demanding of 'attention' since you had to go marching out into the fields and do it manually. When the weather or other conditions interfered you didn't do anything at all that day, so there was plenty of 'lag time' to chat and otherwise have a LIFE outside of your work even if life in general was quite a bit more difficult due to low availability of food and other goods. The percentage of the population doing anything other than basic agriculture was pretty low, but even those who were manufacturing tools (blacksmiths) or doing what little 'information work' was available (scribes and then printers) didn't have to work anything like the hours that a typical factory or office worker does today.

Since the so-called 'Industrial Revolution' though, more has changed than just the availability of food and those other 'goods'. Yes, some things have gotten better, and new things that didn't exist at all in the past are now available. But other things have gotten drastically worse, and the one thing that has gotten completely intolerable is control of your own TIME. The so-called 'free market' has been fine-tuned to require everyone to work 60+ hours a week to maintain their automobiles (required for their job) along with whatever tiny patch of private space they are allowed to rent (have you seen any recent 'deeds' for property? You don't OWN property anymore. Only the Government does, and allows you to pretend to own it for a while...), and the 'employers' have now honed 'personnel management' techniques to the point where they can order people shuffled around as easily as the machines they work for. You dare not look up from your desk/terminal/assembly station for an instant for fear some scanning supervisor might write you up.

Unfortunately for a certain portion of the population, they don't concentrate on one thing very well for hours at a time. They have this terrible habit of spontanaeity. Horrors! Think of how much lost work those spare seconds of looking around or cracking a joke are costing! So the 'employers' have figured out how to bLast them with drugs to make them 'concentrate' better and produce like everyone else. That's what gets you the ADD diagnosis, low productivity. You can be as hyper as you want as long as the 'work' flows fast enough. Only a fraction of the so-called 'sufferers' of ADD would really have any problems functioning if we weren't a culture obsessed with regimented performance.

[ July 20, 2003, 23:51: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Gryphin]

Guys, I'll post more tomorrow. If it was not for the meds I take to counter ADD I would not have been able to read through the entire thread to this point.
It is not a lack of effort, It is not a lack of desire. Is not due to training by parents or anyone else.
Up threw 8th grade I never got better than a C in school.
In high school I flunked most science and math classes. I passed most classes which were interactive, (Spanish, sign, history, English, etc...).
All report cards said, "Gryphin shows such potential but is not working up to capacity"
It was not a lack of effort. Still many of you have seen I don't stick with long term projects very well. It is why I don't do PBW. I can't stay with something that long.

I am now takin Welbutrin. It has given me a huge amount of control over my life. I still can't do PBW type things but...More Latter
I would suggest anyone truly interested to look up a book: You Mean I'm not Lazy, Stupid, or Crazy?

That said, I do agree it is likely it is often misdiagnosed and mis treated. I am sure that some parrents use it for an excuse.
More later.

Another symptom: Impulsiveness.

[ July 21, 2003, 02:21: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

[minipol]

Wow, i read all the stuff, especialy about the changing sleeping habits, being focused on one thing and not on the other and so on, these are all things i suffer from.
As for the comment, "minipol shows such potential but is not working up to capacity", this sounds very familiar. I'm a nervous type as well so this makes one wonder.

I've seen once in a documentary that there are a lot of adult people who don't even know they suffer from ADD in one form or another.
How is ADD diagnosed? I've got a little boy (7 months) and he's behaving just like me when i was his age according to my mum. At some point, she didn't know what to do with me because i was so energetic. Seems my little boy is heading there also. Makes one wonder if there could be ADD involved? Anyway to early to tell i guess.

[Fyron]

Ever see the South Park episode about Ritalin?