(OT) Will we be Nuked?

[solops]

Big disappointments (No rankings, just titles as I recall them.)

1. Patriot - incomplete
2. Superpower - buggy
3. Civ III
4. Call to Power I
5. Hearts of Iron � buggy as hell, true greatness was fumbled
6. Creatures I, II & III � too cute, my kids drive me nuts with it
7. Battlcruiser 3000
8. Imperium (the only attempt at a 3D galaxy I�ve seen)
9. Age of Empires (don�t like RTS arcades; too fast; no pause for orders)
10. SM�s Alpha Centauri

Games I liked right out of the box (Not in order)

1. Conquest of the New World Gold
2. Star Fleet Command
3. Stars! � #1:The best ever MP, outstanding interface
4. Civ 3 PTW add-on w/ patch
5. Civ 2 - Liked it a lot
6. Civ 1
7. The Operational Art of War (all editions)� outstanding, #2 favorite
8. SE IV
9. Dungeonkeeper II � a hilariously engrossing jaunt
10. Tanks!
11. Harpoon
12. Medieval Total War � fun, mixed implementation, good interface
13. Reach for the Stars! (Ancient original edition on Apple II)

[dogscoff]

Interesting post, Solops, but I think maybe you intended to put it in a different thread.

[Thermodyne]

Personally, I have no fear of being nuked by the minions of evil. I think the risk was far greater during the Cuban missile crises and again during the 70's mid-east wars. While it could happen, it really would not be a viable solution for the involved parties. Remember, they are terrorists, not anarchists. The use of a nuclear devise against and American city would create a situation not unlike what occurred after 7 December, 1941.

Basic human rights would go out the window along with what little authority the UN has left. Rule of law would become rule of might. The third world would be returned to the client status that they once suffered under and the Super Powers would again rise up and dictate how the world was run. The US would blow through the Islamic world with little regard for human rights. This would then trigger China and Russia to begin securing their power bases. I think we can all imagine what would happen if a phobic Russia felt threatened by what they would see as American expansionism.

What it comes down to is the level of desperation that the Islamic power base feels. If the current world situation continues, they will gradually be forced to adopt basic human right for their people. This will dissolve their base of power and they will become a footnote of history. If they hold back the influx of western reform, then they hold on for perhaps 50 years. At that time the will have exhausted their source of income, and be unable to finance their reigns of terror. Either way, the current power base gets to live out their lives as elite members of their society. But if they commit an act of terror that causes America to hate them as we once hated Japan, then the probably don�t live to see the next decade.

By attacking Afghanistan, we have removed a major safe area once enjoyed by the extremists. And by removing Saddam, we will be able to create a democratic state in an area that has not been able to live under the rule of democratic law in a very long time. It would be hoped that this would lead to economic development just as it did in Japan. While it is a painful to chose this course of action, to not act could be much worse. Also, so long as the Islamic world resorts to terrorism, the Israeli problem will never be resolved.

[Aloofi]

The problem with all that is that if there is a nuclear attack it will be from a terrorist organization, so there will be nobody to nuke back, and no country to overrun, just a shadowy terrorist group that have already managed to survive a year and a half of war with the US.

[jimbob]

By attacking Afghanistan, we have removed a major safe area once enjoyed by the extremists.

I agree regarding the Afghanistan change... but if the regime currently in power isn't propped up for a significant period of time, and more importantly, if the nation (re)building is not done in the right manner/is done insufficiently, then the prevalent (and obviously arguable) opinion held by many in the world will not change - that America does what's good for America, full stop. Don't get me wrong, I personally think that the issues are far broader than this, but it must be remembered that the World Superpower (Greece, Rome, Mongols, Great Britain, and yes, even the US) needs to 1) build peace, 2) develop others, 3) remain humble.

The US did a fine job of this in WWII (as has been said several times now in this thread). Yah! Applaud! Whooo-Hoo! I give credit where credit is due - the US is probably the first nation in the history of the world to engage in this type and scale of Nation Building, post-war. But that was nearly 50 years ago - half a century! The USA needs to continue in that type of diplomacy/international policy.

And by removing Saddam, we will be able to create a democratic state in an area that has not been able to live under the rule of democratic law in a very long time.

I'm confused as to why people think that a democratic country will be a friendly country. Democracies tend to be spineless when it comes to international intervention, and unbelievably selfish as well, not surprisingly becuase they are literally run by small, selfish, inwardlooking people - lots of them. This is true of Canada, the US, Norway, etc. This does not however make them friendly to one another! Look at Turkey for example, the average Joe in Turkey would like nothing more than the total annihilation of the USA, and if the military didn't keep a lid on things, you sure as heck wouldn't see American troops landing on their beaches to attack Iraq!!

Just my opinions,
jimbob

Edit: perhaps this should have been in the other OT thread regarding impending doom (Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation). Sorry if this post wasn't "Nukey" enough for ya.

[ March 02, 2003, 00:08: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[jimbob]

Aha! Looks like the Turkish gov't won't let the US drop troops on their soil after all!!

So much for the foreign policy of "if only we were all democratic, we'd all get along better"

Smirkingly yours,
jimbob

[tesco samoa]

jimbob... their is another vote.... I am guessing the right number of dump trucks with money did not show up.. * um * the lobby Groups were not in place

[solops]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Interesting post, Solops, but I think maybe you intended to put it in a different thread.

one of those days...no wonder it never showed up. At least I did not post an equipment bid.

[Aloofi]

but it must be remembered that the World Superpower (Greece, Rome, Mongols, Great Britain, and yes, even the US) needs to 1) build peace, 2) develop others, 3) remain humble.

I don't think any superpower have ever been hummble. I guess is part of the human nature. The moment someone realize that they are "The most powerfull country in the world" the hummility goes down the drain.

Funny thing though, is how all of them believed that they were forever, and how easily the historians came later to explain their fall, and how nobody at their time was able to predict their fall untill it was too obvious and too late.

The study of Hegemons and Superpowers is fascinating.

[mottlee]

Originally posted by jimbob:
Aha! Looks like the Turkish gov't won't let the US drop troops on their soil after all!!

So much for the foreign policy of "if only we were all democratic, we'd all get along better"

Smirkingly yours,
jimbob

I'll take my toys (and money) and go home!