Black Hole! Panic stations! - Page 2

Arkcon · #11 August 2nd, 2002, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marvin Kosh:
Hmmm, you know I'm going to just stop using the Warp order for moving to systems I've already explored. That will eliminate that particular loophole

That's always a good plan, notice the newbie problem with zero population colonies. That's caused by using the warp command instead of the colonize command. But then, how do you explore an unknown warp point -- you go to it and activate the warp command.

Note that your work around may still fail, if the ships Last movement point that turn places it on the warp point out.

Anyways, even though black holes are unfair to the AI -- I think they're fun. They add variety, a little bit of drama ( Do we have the supplies to cross ? Can we repair engines in time to escape? Captain, the light cruiser is too damaged -- we have to cut it free from the fleet before we're lost as well. Captain ? Captain ? Sir ?)

Then there's those crazy ship commaders of mine, shutting down those engines and letting the the ship coast in to save supplies, activating them just two sectors away from certain destruction --

"Commander, we must activate the engines now, or we'll be destroyed"

"Orders from the Emperor have not arrived yet"

"You fool, can't you see he's forgotten us and left us to die !"

"You're out of line Sub-commander, stand down!"

*Crunch*

Uhh, oops. Sorry 'bout that guys. Heh.

[ August 02, 2002, 16:48: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

dogscoff · #12 August 2nd, 2002, 05:53 PM

Quote:

*crunch*

LOL! So true. I think there should be a log report at the beginning of the turn for those occasions:

"Events: Hey, Stupid! You've left a fleet in a black hole system without any orders! Maybe it's time you got some sleep!"

Marvin Kosh · #13 August 2nd, 2002, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arkcon:
"Orders from the Emperor have not arrived yet"

"You fool, can't you see he's forgotten us and left us to die !"

LOL! You know, it would be nice if, in addition to getting sucked in two sectors a turn, the ship was swirled clockwise (or is it counter-clockwise)one sector around the black hole too. I know, it's not the same as a cosmic sinkhole, but....

Quote:

Originally posted by dogscoff:
I think there should be a log report at the beginning of the turn for those occasions:

"Events: Hey, Stupid! You've left a fleet in a black hole system without any orders! Maybe it's time you got some sleep!"

Heehee, I think it should be more like a blinking warning light on the empire map, that indicates ships are in imminent danger if you do not give them orders this turn, but that's just me.

Marvin Kosh · #14 August 3rd, 2002, 01:30 AM

....is what my ship captains must be saying. I'm in a PBW game (simultaneous turns), and I'm sending ships through a black hole system regularly, and for some reason they are clearing their orders.... looks random but I just don't know for sure. I've had them set to warp through several systems and this one is in the middle.

It's nippy, because if I wasn't such a micromanager I would have just lost my repair ship to the black hole.

DirectorTsaarx · #15 August 6th, 2002, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marvin Kosh:
EDIT: I know they should have their orders cleared if they take damage, but I'd swear they went Scooby AFTER passing into the black hole system.

You mean they passed into the system, moved a couple spaces, and THEN went Scooby? Or do you mean they went Scooby immediately after warp? If they lost orders immediately after warping in, it's the damage thing. Damaging warp points cause damage when you warp through, which means the damage appears AFTER passing through the damaging warp point.

If they moved a couple spaces before losing orders, that would be strange. Although it could be that an enemy warped in, clearing your ship orders, and then the enemy ship got sucked into the black hole and destroyed before you saw it during your turn.

DirectorTsaarx · #16 August 6th, 2002, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arkcon:
Clearing their orders is a common occurance on non-simultaneous. Here's what happens. You order the ship to warp out a warp point on the far side of the black hole system (to get somewhere you want to be). The ship exhausts it's movement points AT THE WARP POINT INSIDE THE BLACK HOLE SYSTEM. If you look at it's orders (the little eyeball icon) it says only one thing -- WARP. Next turn, before it can move, the system's abilities pulls it 2 spaces in. Now it tries to execute it's orders -- and can't so it does nothing. I don't know if this is a more common problem on simultaneous.
<snip>

An even better twist on this one: if you use "warp points can appear anywhere in system", it's completely possible to have a warp point within 2 spaces of the center. Then, when your ships run out of movement points at the warp point (either warping in or warping out), you're just out of luck. I lost a fleet of 3 baseships that way recently... 2 lessons learned: never warp into an unknown system with your Last movement point, and micromanage your ships' movement through a known black hole system.

Suicide Junkie · #17 August 6th, 2002, 05:49 PM

The safe way to explore new warppoints is to give an order to "warp" through, and then "move" back to the known side of the warppoint. And give that order when you have at least 2 MP and are standing on the safe side of the WP.

Unless there are mines, an enemy defense force, or it is a damaging warppoint, you will peek in, gaining the system map, and return before anything bad can happen.

Baron Munchausen · #18 August 6th, 2002, 09:02 PM

Now if only the AI were smart enough to mark black hole systems as 'no transit' once it had explored them...

Alpha Kodiak · #19 August 6th, 2002, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Now if only the AI were smart enough to mark black hole systems as 'no transit' once it had explored them...

Trouble is, a situation would come along where the only way out of its limited area would be a black hole, and it would voluntarily lock itself in for the rest of the game.

You just can't win when you try to help out the AI.

Arkcon · #20 August 6th, 2002, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Now if only the AI were smart enough to mark black hole systems as 'no transit' once it had explored them...

Hmm... Looks like if the AI did that, that system would be a free system for a human player in the mood for some micromanagement. And what if you closed all warp points except black hole system points. Now you can travel and the AI can't. At least, if the AI is there, there's a chance to lay down some hurt if an ememy is there.

Looks to me like this is the AI's "plan" -- if anything it does can be called a plan. Build lots of stuff and throw it at the enemy, anywhere and anyway it can.

For example, "Ooo... I lost 3/4 of my fleet to mines" A human player might run away to regroup, the AI instaed just tries the best it can with what's left. Which of the two is the best plan -- the one that works in the end. With the bonus we give the AI, it's method works pretty good.

Like many people I would like to see a more intelligent AI. As it stands now it makes some good decisions, something like ...

IF (enemy ships are N light cruisers) then send (N+2 destroyers) else wait (more ships built)

and

If (ships blow up due to mines) then research (minesweepers),build them, send them to minefield.

If only the AI were capable of ...

If (damageing warp point) then research (Armor and repair), build them, include with fleets exploring warp point.

or

If (two nebulas systems in a row) then build (extra supply storage) else (put weapon instead)

Right now, there is only some limited planning, and only against certain enemy threats not against demands of the galactic environment.