Proportions Version 2.4 released

[ZeroAdunn]

All right, what am I doing wrong?

I downloaded the latest patch, installed it, didn't work.

Downloaded the latest full Version, installed it, didn't work.

I have tried everything, but it still doesn't work.

I keep getting this error: "Unknown value "Insert ship type" for entry ## type in record exploration, not connected etc...

Anybody else see this? Anybody know why this happens? Am I just an idiot?

[Sinapus]

There is a minor error in the Jraenar general file. The "Race Opt 3 Characteristic" 6 and 7 have 2 instead of 3 in it and it causes an error when reading that file.

Specifically, the part in question is:

Race Opt 3 Num Characteristics := 7
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 1 Type := Cunning
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 1 Amount := 120
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 2 Type := Defensiveness
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 2 Amount := 110
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 3 Type := Intelligence
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 3 Amount := 120
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 4 Type := Aggressiveness
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 4 Amount := 110
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 5 Type := Physical Strength
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 5 Amount := 120
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 6 Type := Political Savvy
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 6 Amount := 115
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 7 Type := Maintenance Aptitude
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 7 Amount := 110
Race Opt 3 Num Advanced Traits := 0

[ July 14, 2002, 04:00: Message edited by: Sinapus ]

[Sinapus]

Originally posted by PvK:
I do have plans for two more layers of improvement, though. One is to provide an AI that has some cheats to compensate for its inherent weaknesses, and the other is to add some things taking advantage of the new mounts in the impending Gold patch.PvK[/QB]

Anything like some way for the AI to use atmospheric converters effectively? The best I've been able to do is add a "Level 0" converter that is cheap and has the conVersion time set at several hundred turns. The AI will eventually reach the right tech level and hopefully upgrade to the right machine, or eventually will end up reaching the end of that long conVersion time and get the atmosphere converted anyway.

Problem, of course, is that a human player can choose to use them as well, though IMHO one is better off using that facility slot for something like a research center to provide more points to discover other things and eventually get up to Planet Utilization 7-9. My own personal rule is that I'm allowed one planet in my home system to have one of them as a "testbed" and have to wait until I get the appropriate tech to convert other planets.

(My initial design actually set the conVersion time for 200 turns, and it works rather well... now to increase the time and see what happens when the AI gets around to researching the appropriate tech. Hopefully it starts upgrading a few worlds here and there....)

[PvK]

Very strange. It sounds like it might be that your extraction problem didn't extract them to the files to the right place, or something. This is not the same thing that Sinapus pointed out with the Jraenar, which only occurs about once every dozen games.

What Version of SE4 are you running? What is the exact text of the message, and which file is it complaining about? When does the error occur?

PvK

Originally posted by ZeroAdunn:
All right, what am I doing wrong?

I downloaded the latest patch, installed it, didn't work.

Downloaded the latest full Version, installed it, didn't work.

I have tried everything, but it still doesn't work.

I keep getting this error: "Unknown value "Insert ship type" for entry ## type in record exploration, not connected etc...

Anybody else see this? Anybody know why this happens? Am I just an idiot?

[PvK]

That's an interesting idea. Seems like you should be able to mod it if you give the atmospheric converter facility the same family as some other facility that gets built early on. Following several other facilities in Proportions, it could be a combination facility, such as Resupply Depot with Atmospheric Converter, or something. If it shares a family number with a common facility, and has a higher Roman numeral than others, the AI should upgrade to it once it gets the tech. The problem there, however, is it won't be smart enough to realize that it does not need the component, so it will upgrade to them even on correct-atmosphere planets.

Another idea is like what you suggest, but combined with a racial tech area so that only the AI can use them, and then yes, give them a high time period before they take effect.

It could probably be advantageous for the AI, but I also wonder at the idea of having all AI converting all their colonies' atmospheres... hmm.

PvK

Originally posted by Sinapus:
Anything like some way for the AI to use atmospheric converters effectively? The best I've been able to do is add a "Level 0" converter that is cheap and has the conVersion time set at several hundred turns. The AI will eventually reach the right tech level and hopefully upgrade to the right machine, or eventually will end up reaching the end of that long conVersion time and get the atmosphere converted anyway.

Problem, of course, is that a human player can choose to use them as well, though IMHO one is better off using that facility slot for something like a research center to provide more points to discover other things and eventually get up to Planet Utilization 7-9. My own personal rule is that I'm allowed one planet in my home system to have one of them as a "testbed" and have to wait until I get the appropriate tech to convert other planets.

(My initial design actually set the conVersion time for 200 turns, and it works rather well... now to increase the time and see what happens when the AI gets around to researching the appropriate tech. Hopefully it starts upgrading a few worlds here and there....)[/QB]

[ZeroAdunn]

I can't post exactly what it says because the message is extremely long, but here is some of the entries:

Unknown Value "Explorer" for entry 1 Type in record "Exploration"

Unknown Value "Attack Destroyer" for entry 3 type in record "Exploration"

Unknown Value "Attack Destroyer" for entry 4 type in record "Exploration"

It goes on like that, each one appears twice, it is several pages. Do you have any idea what may be causing this?

[ZeroAdunn]

I found the problem.... I had downloaded the patch, just never installed it for some reason.... man, I'm an idiot.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Puke:
it would not be hard to hack, just change the settings.txt to be 1.49 compatable, and remove all references to drones. and go back to the original system types files.

Actually *blush* I tried that. Took quite a bit of work too, considering the AI's needed to be gone through too.

Then facilities.txt (what seems the core of Proportions) refused to load -- at all.

I gave up at that point.

[Pax]

Originally posted by PvK:
That's an interesting idea. Seems like you should be able to mod it if you give the atmospheric converter facility the same family as some other facility that gets built early on. Following several other facilities in Proportions, it could be a combination facility, such as Resupply Depot with Atmospheric Converter, or something. If it shares a family number with a common facility, and has a higher Roman numeral than others, the AI should upgrade to it once it gets the tech. The problem there, however, is it won't be smart enough to realize that it does not need the component, so it will upgrade to them even on correct-atmosphere planets.

Another idea is like what you suggest, but combined with a racial tech area so that only the AI can use them, and then yes, give them a high time period before they take effect.

It could probably be advantageous for the AI, but I also wonder at the idea of having all AI converting all their colonies' atmospheres... hmm.

PvK

For a combination facility, what about a "Terraformer Complex" thatc ombines Climate improvement, Value improvement,a nd Atmosphere conVersion all at once? Possibly generate a small amount of research too, such a facility would probably be heavy on the eggheads. 8)

I don't know why you're worried about AIs converting all their atmospheres. I know, given the chance and resources and time, as a human I would do so ... no hesitation! Getting a 400% increase in local facilities ... worth it, IMO.

Mind in proportions, it might be less of an issue. But still; if humans would convert atmospheres left and right, why not the AI, too?

[PvK]

Originally posted by Pax:
...
I don't know why you're worried about AIs converting all their atmospheres. I know, given the chance and resources and time, as a human I would do so ... no hesitation! Getting a 400% increase in local facilities ... worth it, IMO.

Mind in proportions, it might be less of an issue. But still; if humans would convert atmospheres left and right, why not the AI, too?

No argument that it could be effective and that the AI should be allowed to use a technique that humans can.

As I expect you realize, it could also be good to balance the AI against humans, because a weakness of the AI is its lack of skill at matching colonists to atmospheres. It can also be harder to do in Proportions because it is so much more difficult to actually transplant an entire population.

In Proportions, I think this would be a powerful technique (as it is in the standard game), both because of the added facility slots, and because of the huge increase in planetary capacity on non-domed colonies in Proportions. Non-domed colonies can be made into major fortresses and staging areas in Proportions, given enough time, resources, and/or transports. The economic effects will be relatively less than in the standard game, because each planet only has one queue tied heavily to population, but it could still be important in the long term.

What I'm hmm-ing about is that I think I should double-check the research, deployment, and effect times and costs in Proportions. I think it makes sense as a long-term, high-tech, fairly expensive project. I just want to make sure the time and costs are significant enough to make it a strategic decision rather than something easy and powerful enough that anyone who doesn't do it as a high priority will be at a major disadvantage.

I think it would be most interesting if there were usually a long period in the early game where this is not ubiquitous, because if it is fairly easy to do, then other interesting game elements will lose importance and interest, such as the added value of naturally-own-atmosphere worlds, and the value of obtaining alien colonists native to other atmosphere types, and the possible decision to build cargo facilities on domed colonies to provide more deployment space for defenses.

It may very well actually be fine as is, but I'll want to test and consider.

PvK