Technology Trade (again) - Page 2

Suicide Junkie · #11 February 28th, 2002, 02:31 AM

Which are you saying is the way it actually works?

From what I see, it works exactly like a deconstruct/analyse thing, where you have x copies of some component requiring tech A, and y copies of some other component requiring tech B.
(All on separate "ships" for analysing, of course)

PsychoTechFreak · #12 February 28th, 2002, 10:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by capnq:
I have been told that to trade multiple levels of technology, you have to put it in the deal multiple times (which seems to contradict the manual). I have made successful trades doing it this way.

In which Version have you made the trades successfully, 1.49 ?

QuarianRex · #13 February 28th, 2002, 10:55 AM

I have done trades like this successfully in the gold demo. It seems to work fine.

capnq · #14 March 1st, 2002, 02:37 AM

The game where I was told this was necessary was back in 1.41. While I was testing this in 1.49, I finally twigged on what you meant in your deconstruct analogy, and discovered I was partly wrong.

Two examples from my testing:

Race A has Ship Construction 2, Projectile Weapons 4.

Race B has Ship Construction 3, Projectile Weapons 1.

If A proposes

Give:
Projectile Weapons

Want:
Ship Construction

and B accepts, A gets Ship Construction 3 and B gets Projectile Weapons 2. (This is the part I thought contradicted the manual, but when I couldn't find where I'd read what I thought it said, I realized I was thinking of another game entirely.

)

If A wants to give B Projectile Weapons 4, he has to offer

Give:
Projectile Weapons
Projectile Weapons
Projectile Weapons

PsychoTechFreak · #15 March 2nd, 2002, 08:45 AM

Either I don't get it, or I am too stupid/blind, I am not able to trade the higher techs (except the basic techs) in ver 1.49. Is there a change to the earlier Versions ? I have tried almost everything now, e.g. gas colonization tech against DUC III (I know it is a bad deal), no chance.

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Suicide Junkie · #16 March 2nd, 2002, 06:00 PM

PTF:
What tech level do both sides have, and what is the offer?
Also, what response do you get?

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

PsychoTechFreak · #17 March 3rd, 2002, 01:33 AM

I have got a trade and research alliance with the Space Vikings (AI controlled), usually they accept every trade, the basic techs are no problem to get, e.g. physics 1 for 40,000 minerals.

1) I have got Physics 1, for Physics 2 I would need 100,000 RPs. The AI has got Physics level 1, too.
Give has been: 100,000 minerals; Want has been: Physics, Physics
Answer: We accept your generous offer.
Transfer: 100,000 minerals, got: Physics 1, Physics 1 (worthless)

That means, if the AI has got the same Tech level, your Give-Package is transferred and you get nothing of worth.

After that I have controlled the AI to research Physics 2, then:

2) Give has been: 200,000 minerals; Want has been: Physics
Answer: By Odin, we like what you offer. We must decline for now, but I think it is time that we loot your planets.
Transfer: nothing.

Funny, they decline although they would get 200,000 for the price of 100,000 and they usually accept at 80%.

Then I have turned of the Vikings politics minister, to manually control the trade.

3) Give has been: 200,000 minerals; Want has been: Physics
I manually forced the Vikings to accept, to see what I would get:
Transfer: 200,000 minerals and I finally have got Physics 2 !

I have tested this with several other AIs also (military alliances), same result.
Ok, good news is, in a multiplayer game the trades would be possible, just the AIs would always decline Tech trades of the higher levels.

EDIT: Ah, now I understand capnq's post, if I want physics 3 and I am on physics 1 then I would have to enter:

Physics
Physics

Tricky. I will check that next time.

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

PsychoTechFreak · #18 March 3rd, 2002, 09:16 AM

The 2nd test has worked, multiplayer game, I am on ship construction 1, the other race is on level 4, I ask for:

ship construction
ship construction
ship construction

And get all the Tech levels up to level 4.

There is another tricky issue about this, you never know, for what level the other race is asking for unless you don't know on what level it currently is.

If race A is on Physics 2 and it asks for:

Physics

Then it would actually ask for Physics 3, right ? But race B does not know that, it could be Physics 1 also which makes a lot of difference in the values of the trades.

tesco samoa · #19 March 3rd, 2002, 06:46 PM

a nice way to fix this problem would be an additional tag on the trading items.... like select level...

PsychoTechFreak · #20 March 3rd, 2002, 11:14 PM

I guess this is not a new finding, but the AI can also easily be cheated with the racial techs. You give your Organic Tech 1 to an AI without this racial trait and you get Physics 1, next turn you can repeat this and you get every 50,000 RP Tech for low.

Edit: I guess this is why I have found several AI entries with extremely large percentages for the trades (e.g. 30,000 %), because one could also get 50,000 minerals for nothing.

[ 04 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]