Questions re Map editor

[zovs66]

IINM you can't do that. When a user creates a scenario in the scenario editor and saves the map say summer, there is no way to take that map and hit a magic button to turn it to winter and vise-versa.

DRG created a lovely map of Goldap and gave me permission to use it. I did not need the whole map and his map was created in the autumn. My scenario needed some winterization to it. So I cut out part of DRG's map that I needed for my scenario and then "winterized" it. It took some time (probably 4-6 hours to tweak it and bombard it).

It is scenario 718 - Sturmtruppen 11/44. If you load that you can see that I winterized the whole map section. The original map is 320. It was time consuming but worth it, IMO.

Don

[DRG]

There are a lot of things we can do with maps with these games that would have a pipe dream with the original SP but changing the season of a map while maintaining the exact terrain contours, road net, trees, buildings etc is not one of them and very ( very...) unlikely to happen.

But I agree it would have been a nice feature and we had discussed it a few years ago

Terrain graphics are TerXXz4.SHP files

[76mm]

Sorry, I just saw your responses, I was reloading the page, but didn't see the new page with your responses...

First, very nice Goldap map and winterized version!

Two more questions:
1) I can't figure out how to open the .shp files as graphics files...I guess they are binary, or at any rate not standard graphics files that can be viewed in PaintShopPro & similar? I didn't see any threads about terrain graphics mods either--is it possible to mod terrain graphics files?

2) Even if the terrain files can't be modded, is it really not possible to rename the files used for winter terrain as the files used for summer terrain, so that the winter terrain would be used instead? I'm sure the renaming would be super-tedious, but once you'd done it, wouldn't the game look to the file names when loading terrain? You could save the files in a separate directory and swap them out with JSGME, so it would be super-easy once you'd renamed the files. From your answers I understand that this wouldn't work, but I wasn't sure whether you understood what weird thing I was talking about, so wanted to double-check...

[DRG]

You open SHP files with SHPEdit. It's in the Game Data / Graphics folder in it's own folder.

Swapping snow for grass would only work for that one map on your machine. In all the time you've been waiting for an answer you could have done what Zovs66 did...change them manually, Swapping shp files is a waste of time

[76mm]

Originally Posted by DRG

In all the time you've been waiting for an answer you could have done what Zovs66 did...change them manually, Swapping shp files is a waste of time

But I won't just be doing one map...in my last campaign (using CMBB) I had more than 80 maps, and the one I'm looking at doing now could have more... Unfortunately I don't think that doing that many manually is very practicable.

Originally Posted by DRG

Swapping snow for grass would only work for that one map on your machine.

Sorry for being dense, but why would swapping files only work for one map? Are the terrain graphics "baked in" when you make the map, and you can't change them later even by changing the names of the relevant files?

[DRG]

In game data / design there is a terrain Terrain Tile Index

The game "knows" it is looking for Green grass in TER00. If you swap TER00 for TER10 - Snow you will see snow where there was flat green grass but for one that will only change the flats....hills are another shp file and that is only clear grass terrain but the game looks for the SHP file it does not save that SHP file data in the map save....just that it needs to use that particular shp file so you could go through the lengthy process of swapping the Terrain SHP's around but if anyone else tried to that map in their game it would be green because their grass is still the correct TER00.

You could experiment with a simple flat map.

FIRST MAKE A DUPLICATE INSTALL OF THE GAME

.build that map with standard ground level 0 clear green grass (generate a map and then press the CLR button and then save )then rename TER00 to XTER00 and rename TER10 - (Snow) to TER00 then run that map in the game...should see that green grass as snow. but you will also see about 20% as black voids ( see below).....save that version of the map then put everything back to normal... change your altered Ter00 back to Ter10 and remove the X from your Ter00 and load that map and it will be back to green grass

However, none of that will work exactly as green grass has more basic tiles in its SHP file than snow does so what you propose is impossible even when just displayed in your own game as there will be a lot of black voids

[76mm]

Originally Posted by DRG

However, none of that will work exactly as green grass has more basic tiles in its SHP file than snow does so what you propose is impossible even when just displayed in your own game as there will be a lot of black voids

Thanks much for the detailed explanation...but one last question!

What if I start with a winter map, and swap in the grass tiles for the snow? In that case it sounds like the black gaps that you mention would not occur? I understand that the grass tiles might then look a little funny with less variation, but I could experiment with that.

[DRG]

It won't matter what you do because anyone else running the map will be running it with the correct terrain tiles. The map save only looks are what ter tile it is not what it contains

[76mm]

Originally Posted by DRG

It won't matter what you do because anyone else running the map will be running it with the correct terrain tiles. The map save only looks are what ter tile it is not what it contains

I guess I should have pointed out that I'm mainly making this campaign for myself.

In the event that anyone else does want to play it, they would need the revised terrain file as well as numerous other files that would be necessary to run the campaign.

[EDIT] But in any event I'll upload the files when I'm finished, just in case someone else wants to winterize their summer maps (or vice versa).

[Imp]

No expert here but changing the shape files will not winterise the map in my view, won’t it just change the look but leave movement costs the same.

On rare occasions the map generator can produced mixed maps, normal terrain and movement costs with some snow with winter movement costs so there is something hidden in the code that allows this though it seems impossible to replicate in the map editor.