British OOB7 corrections/suggestions (v.6)

[Cross]

Read a few convincing sources and apparently 'c' wings could be converted to 'e' and that is the likely explanation for supposed '1943' MkIX e wing aircraft.

The first production run (brand new) MkIXe were delivered in February 44 and that batch was completed in April 1944. At the same time instructions to convert 'c' wings to 'e' were sent out.

main source:
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/sort...-mk-ixxvi.html


Unit 353
Should have available date moved back to Feb 1944

Thanks Michal

Cross

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Cross

I've seen sources say Summer 44 for the 'e' wing', so it may be true.

Three Polish squadrons got LF Mk IX in May-June 1944.

Anyway, maybe best option would be to create IXc available from late 1942, to utilize increased bombload, with only slightly worse MG armament?

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Anyway, maybe best option would be to create IXc available from late 1942, to utilize increased bombload, with only slightly worse MG armament?

Ironically, the 'c' wing doesn't have to mean worse armament. The 'c' wing was called the 'universal wing' because it could house several different combinations of weapons (but not 50cal MGs) with the most common:

2x 20mm and 4x .303 MG
or
4x 20mm cannon

The RAF thought the 'e' wing was an improvement because in air to air combat they liked the combination of hard hitting 20mm cannon and high rate of fire .5in MGs (that had better hitting power than .303 MG) and you could carry a lot more bursts of .5in ammo than 20mm.


Cross

[Pibwl]

Let's continue:

387 C9/B 40mm SPAA - is it armoured purposely? In fact it had only gun's shield.

388 Humber AA Mk.I - size should be 3(2), like 377 Guy AA

391 1.5pdr Empl - it uses generic SP-1 picture, as 40mm Bofors.

403 17-pdr MK2 ATG - units 63, 146 use a name written: "17 Pdr", and better is "Mk.2" instead of MK2

406 Priest Kangaroo - it carried .50 or .30 AAMG on a ring (several photos with AAMG are here http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208...garoo+interior)
I haven't found information confirming, that it had BMG (original Priest had not), and it's not seen on photos.

490 Honey Recce - better photo is 27739 (seems, that turretless M3/M3A1 were used only in Africa in a small number, while later turretless M3A3 with sloped hull became common and officially approved vehicles)

595 Col 3in Stokes - drawing is a generic mortar (with Soviet 82mm baseplate) - others use 21150 for 3in mortar

601, 604 Morris CS9 - it had an open turret in fact. Maybe it should have more SD? (it had a smoke mortar).
It's known in publications as Morris CS9/LAC (eg. AFV Weapons Profile 21)

603 Rolls Royce - I believe, that it should not be "colonial AC" class - the cars converted with Boys were used in Egypt, on main theatre, by the 11th Hussars, since the very beginning of war with Italy (6/40 - now it starts at 1/42).
The new turret was fixed (so the Boys was fixed as well) and open from a top. They had also a smoke mortar. [Osprey New Vanguard 189 - Rolls-Royce armoured cars]

On the other hand, 126 Rolls Royce A/C (class 11) should end at some 4/40 at best (now 9/41) - unmodified cars weren't used in combat on main theatres of WWII, and the rest of their service is covered by 602 colonial RR (some were waiting for an invasion in Great Britain). If 603 is changed to class 11, then a lifespan of unmodified 602 can be extended.

All 126, 602, 603 Rolls Royce - correct name is "Rolls-Royce" (I suggest "Rolls-Royce A/C", like #126, for all).

Seems, that Guy armoured cars (375, 376) in fact weren't used in combat, apart from 6 vehicles in French campaign. They were next used for training and defence of Great Britain. Maybe they shouldn't be available to a player in African theatre?... (the only British armoured cars in Africa until early 1941 were Rolls-Royce and Morris CS9, then Marmon-Herringtons) [AFV Weapons Profile 21 - Armoured cars]

628 75mm MkII FG - picture 23015 is Russian 3in Putilov

733 Tetrarch ICS - photo 27624 looks like CS

735 Daimler A/C - I suggest to call it "Daimler AC (LJ)" to avoid confusion with ordinary one

865 Carden Lloyd VI - correctly "Carden Loyd VI"

[Pibwl]

Several proposed pictures (eg. British Boston and Gladiator, Huricane IIc, British Priest)

[Cross]

Weapon 25 – 40mm Bofors AAG
The British Bofors was L/60 so should have its accuracy increased from 14 to 15
(The US version was L/56 and so has the correct accuracy).

Weapon 066 – 3.7in CSH
Rename ‘95mm CS How’
Every reliable source calls this gun 95mm not 3.7 inch.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30025513

The ‘95mm CS How’ was the newer L/18 gun used by Cromwell and Churchill tanks.
The 3.7in How (weapon 67) was the older L/12 gun used by A9, A10, A13 tanks, and was also an Infantry Gun, which all appears to be correctly modeled in the game, weapon 66 just needs the name change.

Weapon 85 - Molotov
Rename ‘AW Bomb No.76’ or ‘SIP Petrol Bomb’ or just plain ‘Petrol Bomb’
‘Molotov Cocktail’ was coined by Finland in the Winter War, and wouldn’t have been used by the Brits for some time.

Weapon 96 - Lewis M.25 LMG
Rename ‘.303 Lewis Gun’
Naming the Lewis Gun an LMG is technically correct, but it’s a bit like naming the US BAR
‘BAR LMG’.

Weapon 114 - S&W.38 Revolver
Rename ‘Webley Revolver’
Webley is the classic British WWI & WWII revolver, rather than a US gun, and doesn’t have to be abbreviated.

Weapon 146 – Sniper Rifle
Rename to ‘Rifle No.3 (T)’
The standard WWII British sniper rifle, (T) is for telescopic sight

Weapon 180 - 110 lb Bomb
British had a 120 lb Bomb, which was used a little in the early war - rename 120-lb GP Bomb (or just ‘120 lb Bomb’)
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.p...ombs&Itemid=60

Weapon 188 - 5in Naval Gun
Weapon either has wrong class, or should be renamed to ‘5in Coast Gun’

Weapon 229 – Pole Mine
Rename ‘Bangalore Trpdo’?

Weapon 242 - .303 Rifle
Rename to ‘.303 Rifle No.4’ which was the standard WWII British rifle
The .303 SMLE Rifle was the classic WWI rifle, and was still used by Home Guard and Colonial units.


Cross

[Mobhack]

Remember that a lot of standard weapons are best left with standard names - so we can find the little darlings with a SQL query when checking statistics.

So "molotov cocktail" is as likely to stay the same as will the default sniper rifle.

Going back to the original "Pistol" might be best to stop trainspotter-like whinging about model names. The pistol names were only put in for some flavour back in the DOS days. I'd be perfectly happy to revert to the old name for all of them, same with hand grenades etc.

303 rifle - covers all the models. And in any case when I was in back in the 70s, we never ever used those No.4 designations or L1A1 and so on bundles of letters. Only stores clerks would refer to the weapon or whatever as such, or civvies - especially it seems American ones! So - the "three oh three" was the generic term for any of those weapons, or just "rifle" with "The Smelly" being reserved for the one 1916 or so model SMLE we still had kicking about in the CCF armoury on the occasional time it came out of store to differentiate it. Similarly when I graduated up to the TA as a university student (TA paid more than the UOTC!) - SLR and "Sterling" or "SMG" and never ever L1A1 and whatever the Small Metal Gun was officially designated by the bean-counters.

Cheers
Andy

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Seems, that Guy armoured cars (375, 376) in fact weren't used in combat, apart from 6 vehicles in French campaign. They were next used for training and defence of Great Britain. Maybe they shouldn't be available to a player in African theatre?...

I've noticed, that there's no problem, since Guys are classified as Light AC and available only in a formation Home Defence.

But then, Ironside Mk.III (Humber LRC III) of the same class should also be available as an Armoured car - they were used from 11/42 in North Africa (Tunisian campaign) until the end of war, by recce units of infantry divisions. [Osprey New Vanguard 177 Humber_Light_Reconnaissance_Car_1941-45]

Some British recce units in Italy used also Otters (#125 from Canadian OOB) and Greyhounds, that could be added.

There is also an interesting Morris LRC possible to add, but it would need new icon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_...nnaissance_Car )

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Going back to the original "Pistol" might be best to stop trainspotter-like whinging about model names. The pistol names were only put in for some flavour back in the DOS days. I'd be perfectly happy to revert to the old name for all of them, same with hand grenades etc.

Cheers
Andy

Sorry if you thought my suggestions were 'whinging'.

I'm aware that the German, US, Soviet, Polish, et al, OOB use national rifle names, for example, so I thought it a bit odd that the Enfield wasn't mentioned.

I guess if there isn't a standard naming convention, then it's tough to know if posts will be seen as:

• suggestion for improvement
• a clear error
• trainspotting

I've kind of taken the stance that I'd rather point out all the inconsistencies/issues I see, and then let you guys decide what's an improvement or error.

Perhaps you shouldn't perceived posts as whinging unless the same person brings up an issue more than once.

cheers,
Cross

[Mobhack]

By all means, feel free to comment.

However things that will get ignored when we get round to the winter OOB work, will be. There may be a return to the simple "standardised" pistol and hand grenade ALA MBT, if we can be bothered, just to save future nit-picking on the subject though.

A simple naming system of "Rifle", "SLR", "SMG" and so on (as in the WRG tabletop rule sets) would have been best. If designing from scratch I would most likely have gone that way.

Andy