Lots of Umbrals, how to kill

[Viajero]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Now, assuming you've got no blood economy set up as you haven't mentioned it(big mistake! Vanheim should be a blood nation!) I'd look at stuff that doesn't require precision. Wrathful skies will comfortably ignore everything you've mentioned so far, just make sure whatever you're fielding can handle it. Put it up and let them guard commander all they want inside the walls. If their mages are all pretty squishy you could drop a few rain of stones via dwarf if thats an option. If you've got a decent W mage (no idea what your resources are) wolven winter is really, really nasty to cold blooded casters and you can combo it with grip of winter for the storming (again, prepare your own troops for it). Won't do anything to the umbrals, but it'll lobotomize their support.

Yes, big mistake of mine. Was relatively new to Dominions when started this game (seems like eons ago now!) and unfamilioar with blood economy and stuff so I have (almost) completely negelcted it. I can try and catch up though, I have a few Vanjarls at 4 or 5 in blood with whom I have started casting storm demons.

On the upside I have a very strong astral economy and astral indy mage supply, so I am also able to cast wish often, and managed to get seraphs and chayots etc

[Sombre]

Oh well if you're at that level of tech, drop the battlefield wide bombs on them like master enslave, solar brilliance, fire storm.

[Verjigorm]

He's got Vanheim... No big fire or astral

Earthquake?

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

He's got Vanheim... No big fire or astral

Earthquake?

He just said he's been able to cast Wish several times. He therefore has access to everything.

[thejeff]

Earthquake, Rain of Stones.

But he's storming the castle, so he'll go second. Which means Army of Gold will be up before he can act.

Storm/Wrathful Skies with lightning immune thugs & summons is probably the best bet. Storm demons, Spring Hawks, summoned Air Elementals and Vanjarl thugs to keep him busy while the lightning does its work.

[Viajero]

Originally Posted by Baalz

If you've got a decent W mage (no idea what your resources are) wolven winter is really, really nasty to cold blooded casters and you can combo it with grip of winter for the storming (again, prepare your own troops for it). Won't do anything to the umbrals, but it'll lobotomize their support.

As I mentioned before I can not rely on stuff that needs Precision (i.e. flame storm, shimmering f. and the like) as the defending army is scripted to guard commander, so the above idea and other suggetsions about non precision spells like wrathfull skies, earthquakes and other look good.

On the specific quoted above... will that also be nasty if your enemy is not cold blooded or a waste of time? how can you prepare your army to withstand Wolven winter and then grip of winter? I presume Warriors of Niefelheim is enough? Would Wolven Winter take effect for the battle I launch if in the same turn? or do I have to wait for the next turn?

[Baalz]

Wolven Winter takes effect the turn you cast it, and drops the temperature 2 shifts towards cold (I think) so you'll likely want to cast it a couple times to get it to cold-3. It can be worth it even if they're not cold blooded for the combo with wolven winter, it really depends on what they're casting, what their encumbrance is, etc. Its just particularly nasty against cold blooded guys (which Agartha is) as it gives their mages absurd encumbrance. Wolven winter combines nicely with grip of winter but it's a double edged sword in this case. The good: you can relatively easily give your own commanders frost immunity. The bad: warriors of niefelheim is going to help your troops but not negate the effects while Umbrals are immune to it so you're hurting yourself for melee. At this stage of the game it's the mages you've got to worry about more than melee though which was the root of my suggestion, but its something to keep in mind.

Depending on what they're casting the enemy mages will likely be taking a nap 4-5 turns into combat and not waking up. If everybody is set to hang around their commanders then you get to basically just blast them at your leisure - assuming you've rigged it so your blasters don't take a nap (wrathful skies is nasty here). Relief would be the ideal combo with this if you can swing it.

[Rookierookie]

I thought Warriors of Niefelheim gives 100% CR.

[thejeff]

It does not. The manual is wrong about a number of the mass elemental immunity spells. None of them give 100% resistance. Nor do they stack with each other, though they will stack with innate resistance or items. Which is why 50% resistant troops are so good. You can make them immune.

Personal resistance spells do give the mage 100% resistance.

[Rookierookie]

Still, 50% CR should be enough to cancel out the effects of cold domain on units.