Questions on unit classes for Andy/Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

AMMO CANISTER
"Crew is 1 and speed must be 0, supplies small ammo only (to WH size 3), low supply points per move (20 ammo points). Range 1 hex."

The text will be corrected in the GG for the next release. The actual max warhead size cannisters will resupply is 4 ( see the WW2 MOBHack help file )


Don

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

The text will be corrected in the GG for the next release. The actual max warhead size cannisters will resupply is 4 ( see the WW2 MOBHack help file )


Don

4? Nice! That means they'll resupply the 60mm mortars the USMC uses at company level (that's always been a minor annoyance for me).

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

The game treats the weapon class ONE(1) weapon in weapon slot 1 as being multiplied by the number of team members. (It then deducts that count for firing range, for HE effect. 10 rifles at range 1 are less effective at range 10).

e.g. there was a Japanese "sniper team" set up with crew 2 and 2 slots both with sniper rifles, for a total of 3 weapons issued. (Slot 1 class 1 weapon* 2 crew) + Slot 2 class 1 weapon = 3 rifles, for 2 men.

In game terms, any "observer" can be ignored in sniper elements as irrelevant. The snipers only need the number of shooters, an observer-spotter might be rationalised as FC and/or Vision add-ons etc.

Many sections have an SMG or whatever in slots 2-4 as well as a class 1 infantry prime weapon in the primary weapon slot 1. That suffices for say the UK WW2 section with N rifles, and an SMG issued to the section commander. There are also elements with another rifle in a secondary slot for "flavour" - e.g. say militia with an AK47 primary and a secondary SKS. (It is also used in some larger sections esp WW2 rifle-only ones to beef their rifle fire up a little bit). The cost calculator will charge a couple of points for usage of another weapon slot for these.

Cheers
Andy

Good thoughts (no surprise considering the source).

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan

AFAIR (too lazy to dig into FMs now) the SBCT sniper teams are supposed to have:
-Sniper with M24
-Spotter with M4
-Grenadier with M4/M203

Some other "sniper" thoughts (some totally insane, some less so, you be the judge) for those who want to mod them:

-if you want to distinguish between "Marksmen" and "snipers", get the marksmen to separate class without sniper bonus (say mech support squad or whatever). If you want to save space in OOB, you may also get all snipers as "Para sniper" - they will cost a tad more due to para qualification but then Snipers are expensive anyway and you'll need only one set of snipers.
-If you want a say two-man sniper team with just 1 sniper rifle... You can change the rifle to class 2 and leave it as primary. Thus there would be only one gun fired while keeping the advantage of primary weapon and more people.
-another idea: for suppression, give the sniper rifle a larger warhead (4) while leaving kill on low - after all sniper's main effect is suppressing the enemy (in conventional warfare anyway).

I presume you're talking about the US Army.
The USMC has never used the M-24 as a primary sniper weapon.
Also they're 2-man teams not 3.

I originally did have the "marksmen" set as size 0, 1-man, infantry class units with a marksman (20 acc, 13 range) rifle rather then a standard sniper rifle (which I've changed to 18 range - and will no doubt get a LOT of "comments" on, but we'll save that for another day). But the replies here have made me rethink and classify then as sniper class units, still with the less capable marksman rifle tho.

Your other suggestions are certainly worth kicking around.

[Mobhack]

Remember - the sniper class gets some benefits when in cover or dug in against direct fire, that infantry do not get (unless being targeted by another sniper, or an H/MMG team). And the sniper is better than regular infantry for shooting grunts when they are dug in/in a trench at > 100 yds.

The AI also knows to hold back sniper classes a little bit to do ranged shooting stuff - if given some 1 man size 0 "pseudo sniper" grunts, it will try to close with them like normal infantry, trying for a (brief) bayonet fight.

So replacing your marksman type with an ordinary infantry class (even if size 0 and 1 man) will have possibly unexpected side effects, though it will be cheaper. (The CC adds extra cost to the sniper classes because of their innate abilities).

Andy

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Remember - the sniper class gets some benefits when in cover or dug in against direct fire, that infantry do not get (unless being targeted by another sniper, or an H/MMG team). And the sniper is better than regular infantry for shooting grunts when they are dug in/in a trench at > 100 yds.

The AI also knows to hold back sniper classes a little bit to do ranged shooting stuff - if given some 1 man size 0 "pseudo sniper" grunts, it will try to close with them like normal infantry, trying for a (brief) bayonet fight.

So replacing your marksman type with an ordinary infantry class (even if size 0 and 1 man) will have possibly unexpected side effects, though it will be cheaper. (The CC adds extra cost to the sniper classes because of their innate abilities).

Andy

Once again IOU !
This is exactly the sort of info I needed.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Nice! That means they'll resupply the 60mm mortars the USMC uses at company level (that's always been a minor annoyance for me).

From what we can see it's been like that for quite awhile so this shouldn't have been an issue for at least a couple of years or longer. Its just that section of MBT MOBHack help was not updated

Don

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

From what we can see it's been like that for quite awhile so this shouldn't have been an issue for at least a couple of years or longer. Its just that section of MBT MOBHack help was not updated

Don

No doubt true, it's just I assumed (yeah, yeah we all know what assuming gets you) MOBHack help was accurate

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

No doubt true, it's just I assumed (yeah, yeah we all know what assuming gets you) MOBHack help was accurate

1 / How many people do you think actually check the WH sizes of all their units before sending them over to a cannister to re-supply ( besides you ? )

2/ How many people do you think actually read MOBHack Help ? ( besides you ? )

3/ How many people do you think actually read the game guild

( admittedly there will be more 3's than 2's and 2's than 1's )


ALSO... just for fun I checked the original, untouched V1 copies of the game I have on my HD and ...

"AMMO CANNISTER - crew is 1 and speed must be 0. Usually transportable, supplies small ammo only (to WH size 4), low supply points per move (20 ammo points).

has been in the the WW2 MOBHack help since then but the MBT MOBHack help didn't catch the change .It's one of those little things that get overlooked for years then someone notices. It's now been corrected



Don

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

1 / How many people do you think actually check the WH sizes of all their units before sending them over to a cannister to re-supply ( besides you ? )

2/ How many people do you think actually read MOBHack Help ? ( besides you ? )

3/ How many people do you think actually read the game guild

( admittedly there will be more 3's than 2's and 2's than 1's )


ALSO... just for fun I checked the original, untouched V1 copies of the game I have on my HD and ...

has been in the the WW2 MOBHack help since then but the MBT MOBHack help didn't catch the change .It's one of those little things that get overlooked for years then someone notices. It's now been corrected

Don

That's only because I'm trying to "revise" an OOB without breaking the game too badly. I KNOW many (most?) of my revisions won't be suitable for inclusion in the game, but I'd very much like them to be "realistic" and "reasonable" within the WinMBT's general guidelines and given limitations enforced by the games source code.

None of this means I can't have fun trying to "improve" the "simulation" value of the game...even if I have to break game conventions left-and-right to do so

Look at the bright side Andy/Don - if nothing else you should get a few laughs out of my alterations.