Wraith Crown and routing

[Zeldor]

Didn't it apply only to troops, not commanders? Stacks of less than 5 troops.

[DonCorazon]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Didn't it apply only to troops, not commanders? Stacks of less than 5 troops.

I am not sure but the rulebook on p.3 says "This includes pretenders fighting on their own. Supercombatants beware."

The rulebook doesn't seem to go into detail on this anywhere else that I have seen though I may have missed something.

[vfb]

KO posted something a while ago about morale-30 units not having to make some morale checks that normal units were subject to. I can't remember exactly what that was. They still auto-rout because of 75% total HP loss. Maybe it's just immunity to Fear?

[MaxWilson]

Since KO mentioned that Morale 30 units are "special" I have played closer attention to them, and I haven't seen a Morale 30 unit ever rout without the 75% HP limit being passed. They appear to be immune to fear and regular morale checks. I suspect that in this case the manual is overzealous, because all pretenders have Morale 30. The manual should probably be taken to read "this includes really tough units fighting on their own."

-Max

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Since KO mentioned that Morale 30 units are "special" I have played closer attention to them, and I haven't seen a Morale 30 unit ever rout without the 75% HP limit being passed. They appear to be immune to fear and regular morale checks. I suspect that in this case the manual is overzealous, because all pretenders have Morale 30. The manual should probably be taken to read "this includes really tough units fighting on their own."

-Max

I have seen SC's with 30 morale route. I think it does not happen commonly because they simply always pass their morale checks.
But the way to do it would be to take a SC, make him offensively useless.. (two shields)

Put him up against another SC with a horror helmet and a rat tail - watch what happens... if you repeat enough times ....

[MaxWilson]

I have observed fights like this--in particular fights with fear--and never seen a Morale 30 creature rout from Fear since I started looking for it. Notably, even high-morale (22) creatures rout when faced with e.g. 300 Hydras after killing maybe 10 of them, but five Morale 30 creatures will kill them all without a problem. (Assuming they're tough enough, that is.) You can actively observe the Morale dropping on the Morale 22 guys, too (Fear causes Morale loss), whereas the Morale 30 guys stay up at 30 the whole time.

Incidentally, this makes Manifestation great against non-Morale 30 creatures, even ones w/ Ritual of Returning, Phoenix Pyre, #secondshape, etc. Ashen Angels have Fear. And if you rout off the edge of the battlefield you just die.

-Max

P.S. At first I had "immortality" listed along w/ RoR, etc., but come to think of it, I don't know of any units w/ immortality that aren't also Morale 30.

[AreaOfEffect]

Still worth noting that, even within their own dominion, immortal units that rout or retreat from an assassination don't come back to life the next turn. They just sort of run off into oblivion I guess.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

...
P.S. At first I had "immortality" listed along w/ RoR, etc., but come to think of it, I don't know of any units w/ immortality that aren't also Morale 30.

Vampires (Count/Lord/vanilla), Fay Boars, and TC heroes are not morale 30.

[Psycho]

I remember reading a while ago about a tactic for killing SCs where you would spam them with lesser horrors thus routing them, while also taking adjacent provinces. That would imply that moral 30 creatures (as most SCs are moral 30) are subject to fear, but that you just need a big enough fear score from lots of lesser horrors. I never tried it though.

[MaxWilson]

No, Baalz' tactic doesn't apply to Morale 30 creatures[1]. That's actually what got me interested in Fear mechanics. Prophetizing your SC gives him Morale 30, so you should have at least one SC that is immune to Fear.

-Max

[1] Or at least, the Fear part doesn't apply. Many SCs are not well-equipped to handle a bunch of Horrors or Lesser Horrors, though, and might well rout anyway when they lose 75% HP[2]. (Especially if they're stationed in a province w/ PD.)

[2] One more interesting thing: the 75% limit does not seem to apply to 3rd-party attackers like Horrors, Lammashtas, the undead horde from Ghost Riders, or any creatures that you add w/ Shift+'U' during battles[3].

[3] Sometimes I enjoy tossing a few Doom Horrors into a battle replay, especially one with hundreds of troops attacking a smaller army. "Let's see how this would have played out if you were picking on someone your *OWN* size!" This can also be a good way to gauge the strength of enemy armies and/or see what they have scripted, even if you're only attacking/retreating a scout. It's also good for re-randomizing a battle (add an insignificant unit and kill it w/ Shift+'K') to see if the outcome was a statistical fluke or not.