questions about fire magic

[Baalz]

Rage & Hydrophobia are usually pretty sucky, but in answer to the question if anybody has ever used them effectively I have. Rage, against hydras is pretty amusing. Hyrdas turn out to be pretty good at killing the heads of other hydras, and when they get tangled up fighting each other for a turn or two it really screws with your opponent who was counting on that poison cloud to be out of the way of his troops following behind. It also can be better than useless against low MR thugs in a pinch as it'll occasionally make them attack themselves, which won't win you the fight but might tip the scales in a close one.

[Executor]

Stop helping him, how am I supposed to win???
I think bonds and prison of fire have no effect.
Does storm have any effect on fire like rain does cause the description is a little confusing, I says something about rain storm, is that like if you cast both rain and storm you have better effect?
And what are the best ways to counter HEAVY fire magic???

[Kristoffer O]

> And what are the best ways to counter HEAVY fire magic???

HEAVY other magic

[archaeolept]

the rain spell will increase fatigue for all fire spells, reduce heat effects, put out fires.

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by Executor

And what are the best ways to counter HEAVY fire magic???

Army of gold is really good if you have the research. Not only does it give your entire army 50% FR, combined with the very high armor you get from this spell it makes you almost immune to most fire evocations. (And of course it isn't too bad in melee either. )

Other than that I'd go with Kristoffers advice.
Or you can build fire immune thugs/SC's. Mechanical men are quite good in general and have FR. They won't make up your entire army unless you invest very heavily, but you can mix them with your regular troops to mitigate damage a bit.

[Dragar]

Has anyone had any luck using the short range fire spells that emanate from/surround the caster? I've never tried before as I prefer to keep fire mages away from the melee, but notice that they can do a fair bit of damage over a wide area when someone gets close to them, and with a fire immune army like abysia's there is no collateral damage. Further you avoid the low precision most fire mages have, the fireballs and such tend to be highly effective only against very large numbers, else you spend a lot of effort burning grass.

Has anyone every built a thug on that premise? I see two major problems:

1. Fire doesn't do much for survival - would need a fair bit of equipment and/or buffing from other mages.

2. Is there anyway to get them to attack in that fashion? Give them an attack order and they won't cast, don't script them to attack and they will just sit back and lob longer range spells..

Perhaps placing all troops at the front with the mages, setting them to guard commander, would bring the fight to the mages and they'd choose the short range spells? That way there would be some decent protection for the mages too.

[Deadnature]

I've noticed that my Abysia PD fire-mages will cast flame eruption if the situation calls for it, IE: multiple enemies are within range and said mage has enough fatigue/skill. I would imagine this spell would be quite nasty against a none-fire-immune army.

So the caster WILL use it in the right circumstance, but you need to keep him alive long enough of course.

Check out the thread on using Pangaea's Dryad songs, a similar strategy would probably be necessary if you want to use such fire-spells offensively.

[K]

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

> And what are the best ways to counter HEAVY fire magic???

HEAVY other magic

Too true.

Also, remember that the easiest way to counter armies with lots of mages is to toss cheap chaff units at the front of your army who are supposed to die. The ideal is that you want the enemy mages to be fatigued out and casting random unscripted spells by the time they encounter your expensive units. By then they are usually casting every third turn and the AI is making poor choices about which spells to cast.

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by Dragar

Has anyone had any luck using the short range fire spells that emanate from/surround the caster?

I've used it a couple of times with abysia's flying mages. (Edit: I suppose you could do the same with any fire mage and a pair of boots of flying, though most will have a few less hp iirc) Giving them a bodyguard of devils (flying & fire immune) and scripting something like Phoenix fire, hold, attack, flame eruption (x2), cast spells. If you time it right you can arrange it so they come into contact with the enemy about the same time your foot troops would, (script in an extra hold if necessary, or cast long range spells, though that uses up fatigue you might prefer to use later) and if all goes well it gives truely spectacular results. It's risky though. On the first turn after the attack order they're generally quite exposed and might get killed, and after that they're still close to the front and might end up getting caught in any kind of nastiness. I would only risk it in a truely must-win battle that's otherwise hanging in the balance.

You could of course do the same with Arch Devils with some equipment without the risk of dying so easily, but then there's so many ways you can use arch devils... And of course using them as mages will fatigue them out, so if you go on and loose the battle you're likely to loose the devil too.

[Zeldor]

FR SCs are best against fire magic. It is really hard to protect normal armies from Fire Storm or heat aura, even if you have Army of Gold researched [unless you have plenty of E mages and a lot of chaff commanders].