Warmachines for Dom3 - Page 2

Tifone · #11 July 20th, 2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Omnirizon said:
i think this is just asking for unnecessary complexity. Dom3 has never been about being a 'hyper-realistic' wargame; I, in fact, find those types of games to be pure dross for a complexity of both ontological and gaming reasons that aren't worth going into right now.

we could imaging that a nation does in fact build siege engines, thus why mindless and animals aren't as good, since they don't grasp the architectural concepts. Or whatever, use your imagination. Modeling siege engines is just not something Dom3 is equipped to do, nor what it is even about.

And for all these points, there already are units and summons in the game that get siege bonuses.

I actually agree with everything of that.

Also, making the gifs and the statistics, and resolving the balance issues of catapults, ballistas, trebutchets, some of them possibly magic to add a bit of variety and fantasy in this... would be a huge load of work, for something the game isn't IMHO in the real need of. And even doing all this, the result could possibly break many balances anyway nonetheless- many nations just don't fit IMHO the state of mind of building and carrying around catapults, ballistas, trebutchets. Intantly come to mind Abysia, Pangaea, Niefelheim, EA Marverni, and possibly many others. Playing Dominions 3 already requires sometimes big stretchs of imagination - as it's a fantasy game, and as it has not be done with full hi-res graphic showing everything that happens in the story like other titles. Imagining my soldiers building some war engines to bring down the gates of a fort, and the ones with the siege bonus being better at this than the other, is a minor one

I'm not of course saying, do not improve the game, you can imagine whatever is not there. Just that for me, siege engines are a minor thing that I don't really feel the need in this game. I prefer the battles continue involving just hordes of soldiers, archers, cavalry, undeads, demons, big mythologic monsters of all kind, animals, powerful mages... it is enough for me, and we can already do much to improve just those things ^_^

Sombre · #12 July 20th, 2008, 08:28 PM

Not a fan of this idea at all.

I have made 'war machines' of a sort for a couple of mod nations, but they work in much the same way as existing units like crushers, chariots, fire drakes, archers etc.

HoneyBadger · #13 July 20th, 2008, 08:31 PM

Well, don't forget that this thread was spawned by the oceania thread, which dealt with, and applied to, only a special group of nations. So maybe only a certain group of nations would gain access to this line of Construction summons?

And trebuchets? How are they small and mobile? small ballistas, small catapults, serpentines, yes, like the ones the Romans would build on the spot, and units of that scale, but not huge vast towers. Think in terms of a chariot.

HoneyBadger · #14 July 20th, 2008, 09:01 PM

I hate to have to keep redefining this, because I don't want to confuse people, but I was hoping people would pick up on the *spirit*/intention of the thread being the same as the Improving Oceania thread.

Sombre, you managed to get it, even if you don't realize it. That's exactly what I'm talking about-nothing crazy, no completely different units or play from anything that's already in the game, just ideas for more units like the Crusher and other mechanized units already in the game, to expand the Construction school. Nothing balance-destroying, and I'm fine with it being restricted to certain nations or whatever. But what units that involve some form of technology can we come up with that would be reasonable assets on the battlefield?

TheMenacer · #15 July 20th, 2008, 09:56 PM

I always sort of assumed that the seige weapons were abstracted out. I mean there's that one hero for Arco that's just an old guy, and yet he has a seige bonus, you can't really say that he himself walks up to the enemy walls and beats the hell out of them. Seige weapons wouldn't be much good in a real fight anyway, so we just don't see them when your generals build them in the field whenever they lay seige to an enemy fortification or whatever.

I do thing summonable seige defences (or weapons for that matter) in the construction are a good idea though, provided they're more than just a catapult. I mean someone said that all we'd have are earth summons, but not if you get creative. You could have fire summons that are immobile brassiers(sp?) of elemental fire that do nothing but hurl fireballs at attackers, you could have a fire/death banefire version of the same, you could have vines that repair the walls or just strangle people to death. You could have a water summon that autocasts that friendly currents spell. You could have all kinds of stuff.

If you really want to get nuts, instead of having it be an immoble summon like the watcher (that 50 patrol bonus statue air summon), you could have it function like a dome that takes shots at any seiging army or repairs the castle or whatever and requires an investment of gems to maintain. Naturally that'd take new rules which means that the developers would need to get on board, but hey, a guy can dream.

HoneyBadger · #16 July 20th, 2008, 09:58 PM

Ok, so like no seige engines. Can we please get past this? Warmachines, not seige engines. Sigh.

HoneyBadger · #17 July 20th, 2008, 11:56 PM

I think you have some great ideas there, TheMenacer. I especially like your strangle vines idea. Great for Pangaea. The Fire Brazier would be a nice one for Abyssia, too.

Foodstamp · #18 July 21st, 2008, 12:14 AM

I think the reason we don't see a lot of war machines and siege engines in the game is because it is implied they are built on site.

A 1000 militia don't deplete a castle's defense by standing outside. I always imagined the idea is if there are more people besieging, there are more people building and utilizing siege equipment, which is why a city falls faster to 1000 people than 100 people. If not for siege engines, really it wouldn't matter if there were 10000 people outside unless the idea is they are chipping away at the stones with their swords or standing on each others shoulders to get in.

What has really always bugged me is the idea of besieging underwater fortresses. Really, can't swim over the top of that kelp fortress? come on.

If by war machines you mean something else, then i apologize

Lingchih · #19 July 21st, 2008, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Foodstamp said:

What has really always bugged me is the idea of besieging underwater fortresses. Really, can't swim over the top of that kelp fortress? come on.

If by war machines you mean something else, then i apologize

There are thousands of stinging jellyfish rooted to the top of the kelp fortress. That is why you cannot go over the top.

HoneyBadger · #20 July 21st, 2008, 02:58 AM

No I'm basically talking about more and varied units for summoning, in the Construction path. Things militaries with the know-how could build, plus what can be done with magic and Dom3 attuned imagination. That's pretty much it.

I never meant for the whole seiging process to be expanded-it's fine the way it is. Ofcourse, the right summons could make storming a castle a lot easier, or a lot more difficult, but I'm leaning towards what's going to be the most fun-storming castles = fun (to me). Sitting around for 6 months trying to outstarve your enemy = not that much fun.