New Finnish OOB

[LonelyRider]

cbreedon using the modified Finnish oob should not affect in any way your russian oob.

[LonelyRider]

These are just wery little things, but I thought Id mention them anyway... Dont take any stress from this!

The T-26E vickers should have a Suomi BMG, that is the English vickers that got it's crew increased to 4 and the 37mm bofors replaced whit the soviet 45mm gun (well the gun change actualy happened after winterwar). The no. 4 crew man was added already when those vickers tanks came to Finland in 1938-1939.

They were originaly meant to have a custom engine (and shipped to Bulgaria IIRC), that changed the turret to be offset to the right to give room for bigger side mounted engine. But since they were refitted whit the standard size engine and sold to Finland instead, Finns used the extra space on the left hull on these modified Vickers tank hulls to add that fourth guy and a Suomi BMG as hes arnament on a fixed mount of domestic design.

T-26 m 1939 should have a DT bmg not suomi BMG, that is the OT-133 modified to be gun tank and fourth crew member added whit a fixed DT BMG mount. Same thing basicaly as whit the Vickers tank, but for a different reason. The OT-133 (and OT-130) had it's turret offset to the right to give room for flame fuel tanks on the left hull. Finns removed those and put a fourth crew man there. Also the flamer was removed and replaced whit a DT cmg and 45mm gun in the turret converting these flame tanks into gun tanks. Whit better availability of captured stuff now they added the DT bmg instead of the Suomi SMG as hull arnament.

These modified T-26 and vickers tanks are unique for the Finns (well ofcourse not all captured T-26 tanks were modified this way in finnish use just the OT-flamethrower ones). Normal Soviet T-26 had 3 man crew and no bmg. There are pictures of finnish modified 4 man OT-130 and OT-133 below:

OT-130 FINN MOD:
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/g...6/2/T_26_1.jpg

OT-133 FINN MOD:
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/g...3/T_26con1.jpg

And here is a normal Soviet T-26 for referance so you see the horn and also the headlight on the front hull, but no BMG mount. This particular one also has additional lights on the turret for night fighting use.
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/g...26M35RT_3b.jpg

Btw. Only difference between the OT-130 and OT-133 was that the 133 had a sloped turret.


Wow quite a long text for simple thing really, hope you can make sence of it.

SPWW2 fin oob has these pretty much correct so you can look there for better referance if you like.

[cbreedon]

LonelyRider said:
cbreedon using the modified Finnish oob should not affect in any way your russian oob.

Are the scenarios using a custom Russian OOB then?
edit
Evidently it was me. I replaced my Russian OOB with the one in the default folder and presto. It worked. Funny I don't remember ever playing around with the Russian one...

BTW
Thanks for all the work on the Finnish OOB. It looks great!

[DRG]

cbreedon said:
Not sure if it's something with my Russian OOB or not but most of the units in the scenarios with the Russians/Soviets are not displayed correctly. For example mech squads show up as tanks, etc. I looked in Mobhack and the correct icons are assigned to infantry. Is anyone else having this issue?

BTW
I really like the Finnish OOB. Thanks

Let me guess, you installed the Russian third party Modified OOB that we specifically warned people would totally bugger up their scenarios.

Does that sound like the problem?

Don

[cbreedon]

Zipuli

I just played your Leopards on the Prowl scenario. It was fun. I ended with a marginal victory.. very close to decisive.. I got too cocky at the end with my Leo's and loss one and had two immobilised.. Fun none the less. Kiitos

[Zipuli]

LonelyRider,

I will check that info and edit if needed - I have no reason to not believe that info you gave is incorrect (especially the number of crew, that one I noticed as well now that you noticed it!), but just to make sure

Zip

PS. I may try to "defaultize" my OOB (if time/interest permits) so that when loading a scenario with old OOB used, it would work normally - which is NOT the case at the moment.

[LonelyRider]

Yeah it was something of a mystery to me before too

About the sources:
Firstly the book - Suomalaiset Panssarivaunut 1918-1997 (toinen laitos 2003)

Secondly I eyeballed the Vickers 6-ton and the gun tank converted OT-133 at the parola armored museum last summer. And surely enough both had the fourth crew man whit a bow mg mount (suomi for vickers and DT for OT-133).

[LonelyRider]

Post deleted by LonelyRider

[Zipuli]

Thanks, got that same book too, in addition to the piles of others, and I did use it to check data, but... ah well I am sure that's not the only little detail I missed, so keep 'em coming as you find them!

PS. EDITED:
T-72M1 icon -> 2673 (no fuel tanks, tho no camo either)
BT-42, T-28 icon -> correct ones
T-54/55 -> winter icon
BMP-1TJJ -> ROF 7 (same as BMP-1!), BMP-1TJ carry 5
Itpsv 90 ammo load now 20 HE, 2 Sabot
152mm howitzers (except H 55) removed from use around 2010 (swimming in same pots as BMP-1s etc. Soviet stuff)
APILAS expire date no longer a guess - I let them be there till 2020 (we will know one day anyways...)
T-26 data, see previous page, post by LR
added NSV armed Masi/Rasi 1992->
Removed "dead" stats (FC/Stab) from helos with no weapons and prices dropped, yippee!
Added BA-20M picture
XA-203 FC = 10 for all XA-203's
AMV APC now has fully stabilized (5) weapon, as it should be
Some formation corrections
Added Mech FO's (the ones that move with BMP-1TJ) with 3 men, BMP-1TJ carry = 3...

Following data in the OOB is speculation (/not 100% sure yet - tho the ideas are not from thin air either (NLAW speculation anyone?)):
-Leopard 2A5FIN (2A4's will most likely be upgraded sometime, but into...?)
-84 RsKES AT-4HP (APILAS is at the end of its road, but what will replace it, will it be replaced in the end?)
-66 KES 2010 (M72E-9 LAW, improved penetration, Finnish company owns ~50% of the company that makes M72 versions in Norway... the ones in use now won't last forever)
-AMOS with STRIX (expensive... but fits with the "Iskukykytutkimus"-results)
-BMP-2FIN (BMP-2 needs to be upgraded as they are to be held in the roster for a looong time (Mech BG), packages exist... will exists, but does the money?)
-XA-360 AMV IFV (not bought yet, will it be bought as it costs big ��? I truly hope so!)
-Sisu HMTac vehicles (in 2009-2010 some 500-600 new vehicles are to be bought, Sisu being a STRONG candidate with these vehicles - some already in use as Bridge laying vehicles (5x5 variant))
-Patriot SAM (new SAM system was 100% sure to be bought to replace Buk, but it's the green stuff again that dictates, or the lack of it! Used Patriots are there to be bought, need is also there...)
-MRLS with CM ammo (AT-2 in use now, Finnish politicians waiting for the more humane CM ammo... The systems were bought to enable using ATACMS -type munitions, but then again would not be our first half-assed purchase with great ideas but lacking in results... Vickers anyone?)
-Hornet AG ammo (is 110% sure to be bought, but type of ammo/amount of it is unsure...)
-Lockheed C-130 (was rumours from quite high level in the air at the same time as CASA/Spartan tests were on... same with flying tankers for our Hornets. Latter did not materialize, C-130 may become true as our involvement in "peace keeping" is ever growing... (and what is more humiliating than lendind an Antonov?))
-Jurmo NEMO (tests have taken place, results seem satisfactory, currently coastal troops' mortars are towed with trucks... 1+1=?)


Another quick note, about vision setting I've used for infantry...
-10 = hand held II device, such as Wild Big, or bit older II device that can be used as a sight, such as Pilkington)
-15 = VV2000/VV2002
-40 = Matis Handheld Mk 3

Zip

[pdoktar]

Some rumours about Leo2A4 upgrade is the Strv122. The L55 seems to be a no-no due to barrel lenght in close quarters.

NLAW:

http://www.saabgroup.com/en/MediaRel...apon_order.htm

and some discussion:

http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?showtopic=23693