Where are my horses hoves?

[Humakty]

As the only way to represent horse efficiency in battle are the hooves attack, I think they should all have various degrees of it, as in CBM. Normally, a cavalry charge as a huge impact on the cohesion of a unit, which is not represented in Dominions.

Hum, think about it, would you like to be the chap directly facing a 4 to 5 hundred kilos beastie charging at 50 km/h ?

[lch]

I think that being mounted increases action points and defense, doesn't it? Balancing is another thing to discuss.

[Randvek]

Depending on what part of history we are talking about, any horse that can support human weight might be considered a heavy horse. Why do you think chariots were such a big deal way back when?

[Tuidjy]

Not true. The heaviest horses (800+ kg) were arguably never used as warhorses.
Eastern horse archers used horses incongruous with Westerners idea of what a
full-size horse is. Chengis's people rode on horses that were under 500 kg.
Even the fully armored knights of the middle ages only used medium (by today's
standards) horses, as the heavy draft horses of the time were not agile enough.

Given that Dominions mixes time periods, we should assume that all kinds of
horses exist at the same time - from light weight Arabians to heavy Friesians.
It does not make sense that a horse archer will use or train his horse as a
battering ram.

But I wonder whether there is any point in talking realism. In Dominions, horse
archers are a joke, while in Earth's history, they were the bane of everyone and
everything, until the advent of firearms. Yeah, armchair generals will tell you
that Alexander somehow defeated them, and that a combination of pikes and longbows
would have crushed them... whatever.

Speaking purely from a balance perspective, horse archers either should be
drastically reduced in price, or get a 'skirmish' command - advance until in
range, then retreat from closest enemy while reserving points for a shot.
It makes no sense to give them melee abilities. They would never engage, for
example, heavy infantry.

[vfb]

They would never engage, for example, heavy infantry.

Oh, yes they will, when a wizard casts Touch of Madness on them!

[CUnknown]

Tuidjy ... skirmish command ... drool ... drool ...

[Don_Seba]

This does not sound like something that would be TOO hard to
implement. And it would not be too powerful, either. We may
not have firearms, but they'll be eating lightning bolts
before they can overrun the world :-)

[Arcaani]

Hi, everybody!

All types of cavalry thoughout history which have been used in an assault role (i.e., all cavalry which were not used as archers/skirmishers) have been very powerful while charging. That is to say, while moving/delivering the first (and in some cases, subsequent (Macedonia's Companion cavalry and the Brinhentin of the Gauls, among others, were adept at not only delivering a single blow at the end of their charge, but several)) hit(s), cavalry would smash into and destroy the cohesion of any infantry troop (barring, of course, those which were able to either impale the horses on pikes/spears, or use makeshift weaponry to imitate that effect, e.g. the Romans and their use of pila (javelins) dug into the ground as makeshift spear walls).

But when their [the cavalry's] momentum is broken... They lack the agility and tactical mobility of regular footmen. That's why cavalry oftentimes would break off, form up, and charge again (and again and again, etc...).

Now, when the cavalry hit the infantry, the horses, while not necessarily using their hooves, would certainly cause some havoc on their own. I see the "Hoof" attack of the horses in Dominions as a rough (and forgive my improper usage of the word) translation of the multiple charges that cavalry would execute when they broke off from melee combat (which they, as we all know, are unable to do in the Dom3 battle engine).

To summarise: Hoof attack simulates the whole horse's movements, not just its forelegs'. All horses should, in my humble opinion, have a Hoof attack, which will be weaker for lighter horses.

Edit: Minor rephrasing, minor additions to clarify some grammatical errors.

[Agema]

A skirmish command would be perfect for light cavalry.

Horse archers are expensive, and I've never seen much use for them in Dom, except those reasonably tooled up for melee as well. I guess they're pretty versatile with a high mapmove, though, if you want to dash armies around quickly.

I do think that hoof attacks for light cavalry is very unrealistic though. Light cavalry were never used as shock troops. Even heavy cavalry are overrated. There's barely a battle in history where there was a decisive cavalry charge against infantry which won the battle.

In the ancient era heavy cavalry were used to drive off light infantry and defeat the opposing cavalry on the wings, not to charge heavy infantry.

In the medieval era, knights were used as shock troops. However, they were successful because the infantry of the era were unprofessional, so tended to be both disorganised and of poor morale, who could be broken up. Whenever knights attacked infantry with resolve and cohesion, the infantry were comfortable winners (e.g. Bannockburn, Battle of the Golden Spurs, lots of battles with the Swiss). The myth of knight superiority is added to by the fact they were essentially the ruling classes, who ensured that their performance and skill was emphasised or exaggerated when historians and poets spoke of their deeds.

[Tuidjy]

You are underestimating charges. Both battles you're mentioning involved really
long spears (pikes) as well as disciplined infantry. And the Swiss were famous
for using them.

Without pikes, standing up to a heavy horse charge would be suicide, no matter
how disciplined the unit. And course, the only thing that pikes are good for,
against horse archers, is impersonating a pin cushion.

Firearms/longbows protected by pikes is what ended cavalry's reign, and mobile,
accurate field cannons eventually beat that combination.