The #1 Difference New Players Must Know For MP

[VedalkenBear]

Loren: I've noticed that AIs declare war even if using remote spells. Now, we all know when an enemy throws remote attack spells on us... it may be possible that sometimes when the AI declares war, they've thrown another spell at you that is cloaked by a random event, or maybe has a spy raising unrest somewhere.

As far as SP/MP differences, this I'm sure will come out wrong, but MP doesn't seem to have room for anything but blind optimality. I'd have to research some of the MP games that try to 'enforce' some flavor, but basically, I can see many reasons to play SP Dom3. I can see only one reason to play MP Dom3.

[Toran]

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

As far as SP/MP differences, this I'm sure will come out wrong, but MP doesn't seem to have room for anything but blind optimality. I'd have to research some of the MP games that try to 'enforce' some flavor,

Well, while MP for sure requires a player to play "better" (thus, probably, giving less of what you call "flavor"), it still requires you as well to have a bunch of different styles available - just in order to be able to surprise your enemy

but basically, I can see many reasons to play SP Dom3. I can see only one reason to play MP Dom3.

Oh, there are probably lots of reasons to play SP, and each of them is 100% valid, since it's you playing
But the "only one" reason to play MP is simple - because it's a real challenge, a challenge to play versus someone that can actually surprise you, that can adapt tactics.

Ah, and you can also make fun of your opponent, and taunt them in the forums or via ingame messages. The AI doesn't really respond to those

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Toran

Ah, and you can also make fun of your opponent, and taunt them in the forums or via ingame messages. The AI doesn't really respond to those

Bleh.

[Ironhawk]

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

As far as SP/MP differences, this I'm sure will come out wrong, but MP doesn't seem to have room for anything but blind optimality. I'd have to research some of the MP games that try to 'enforce' some flavor, but basically, I can see many reasons to play SP Dom3. I can see only one reason to play MP Dom3.

I understand what you are trying to get at, but its not true.

Playing in MP forces everyone to be efficient, not uniform. The CBM mod (the most popular MP mod by far) is a brilliant example of this - it doesnt force players into specific units or tactics but tries to make every unit in the game viable. MP games force players to constantly innovate against each others strategies and as a result there is a constant churn of new units and spells as players try to exploit them in new ways to outwit thier enemies.

[JimMorrison]

#1 thing to remember when starting MP:

People will get hurt.

At first, it will mostly be you, unless you are an evil sonuvabytch.

8-60 people join a game, only one wins, this means that many people in the game will be hurt.

Therefore - you must be able to tolerate adversity, or your panties will get bunched up so tight they cut off blood flow, and then you have to explain to people that your legs were amputated because you couldn't handle fully cerebralized fantasy online warfare between sprites. Sad, really.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

I understand what you are trying to get at, but its not true.

Playing in MP forces everyone to be efficient, not uniform. The CBM mod (the most popular MP mod by far) is a brilliant example of this - it doesnt force players into specific units or tactics but tries to make every unit in the game viable. MP games force players to constantly innovate against each others strategies and as a result there is a constant churn of new units and spells as players try to exploit them in new ways to outwit thier enemies.

In fact, this is the #1 similarity, arising from a difference, in SP and MP. That is, in SP you will try and do many different things simply because at a certain threshold, they all work against the AI. In SP you will try and do many different things because if you stick to 1 trick, you will tend to lose.

[JimMorrison]

[quote=JimMorrison;673669]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

I understand what you are trying to get at, but its not true.

Playing in MP forces everyone to be efficient, not uniform. The CBM mod (the most popular MP mod by far) is a brilliant example of this - it doesnt force players into specific units or tactics but tries to make every unit in the game viable. MP games force players to constantly innovate against each others strategies and as a result there is a constant churn of new units and spells as players try to exploit them in new ways to outwit thier enemies.

In fact, this is the #1 similarity, arising from a difference, in SP and MP. That is, in SP you will try and do many different things simply because at a certain threshold, they all work against the AI. In MP you will try and do many different things because if you stick to 1 trick, you will tend to lose.

I dunno what you're talking about. <3

[VedalkenBear]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

I understand what you are trying to get at, but its not true.

Playing in MP forces everyone to be efficient, not uniform. The CBM mod (the most popular MP mod by far) is a brilliant example of this - it doesnt force players into specific units or tactics but tries to make every unit in the game viable. MP games force players to constantly innovate against each others strategies and as a result there is a constant churn of new units and spells as players try to exploit them in new ways to outwit thier enemies.

I think you overthought my statement. My point is that you cannot think of 'what would be fun to play', but rather 'what would win me the game the fastest'. I completely agree that efficiency is important and not uniformity; I never said you had to be uniform. What I meant (and perhaps said poorly) is that you will never choose a less efficient means to an end in MP, because no one else does. The optimal strategy in MP is always efficiency, because there is (in the end) only one goal in MP: to win.

Now, what efficiency _is_ can (and given strategical concerns, _must_) change over the course of the game. But it is always efficiency. Even with CBM (with which I play all of my games), I am dismayed at the discussion regarding 'useful' Pretenders in MP. Over and over in discussions of MP, I see entire ways of playing the game dismissed as 'useless', and in MP they probably are. But this does a disservice to the game as a whole, for it speaks louder than any words that there is more to the game than simply MP.

My advice to people who wish to play MP is to discard everything you've learned about the game, because MP is a different game.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

I think you overthought my statement. My point is that you cannot think of 'what would be fun to play', but rather 'what would win me the game the fastest'.

Maybe if you are a full-time salaried Dom3 player. Not if you are playing for fun though. If you are playing for fun, then you'd better think of 'what would be fun to play', otherwise there's really not much point. Obviously your game plan should at least give your Pretender some chance to ascend, so you can avoid being completely humiliated, which is usually not fun.

I completely agree that efficiency is important and not uniformity; I never said you had to be uniform. What I meant (and perhaps said poorly) is that you will never choose a less efficient means to an end in MP, because no one else does. The optimal strategy in MP is always efficiency, because there is (in the end) only one goal in MP: to win.

The goal of your nation is to win. The goal of you as a player should be to have fun. It's a game.

By the way in the MP Preponderance game I've been sending my astral mages into Strange Houses to summon void creatures. Completely inefficient! All I have to show for it is a couple mages with some summoning skill now, and a Vile Thing to show for my troubles. But it's quite fun. Also I've been messing around in the Forgotten City, and have poured at least 1000 gold into it and not gotten anything back yet. But I've had some funny battles with the horrors within. So 'no one else does' is just not true.

Now get out there and summon some Bog Beasts!

[chrispedersen]

[quote=vfb;673751
By the way in the MP Preponderance game I've been sending my astral mages into Strange Houses to summon void creatures. Completely inefficient! All I have to show for it is a couple mages with some summoning skill now, and a Vile Thing to show for my troubles. But it's quite fun. Also I've been messing around in the Forgotten City, and have poured at least 1000 gold into it and not gotten anything back yet. But I've had some funny battles with the horrors within. So 'no one else does' is just not true.

Now get out there and summon some Bog Beasts![/QUOTE]


How do you pour 1000 gold into a forgotten city? dying?
In another thread they said Forgotten city was broken. I do know that while I never died, I never got anything out of it either... 9 turns in a row.