Putting together a megamod for a megagame (long)

[llamabeast]

I really want to say "Include Tomb Kings!" - so I guess I'd better finish it!

[Foodstamp]

Aye, I meant nations. I thought that is what I said too lol.

[Sombre]

I was just thrown when you said you'd move units around to free up more slots. Now I get it though. You'll make like a three ages of Ctis composite, or a MA Ermor and Pythium composite, freeing up more nation slots without losing lots of units from the game entirely.

[Foodstamp]

ja

[DrPraetorious]

The three ages of C'tis composite wouldn't be so bad.

An Ermor-Pythium composite would be farking insane .

That said, for now, I will probably be making composites of the existing nations.

I'd like feedback on my first round of balance/compliance changes. This post will contain data on Foodstamp's mods.

Haida Gwaii:
* Replaced all "River Fortress" (admin 20) with "Tel City" (admin 40).
* Changes to commanders:
-- Eagle Talon is now AAAEE, 110% AEWN. Costs 300 gold (Grand Master, +10% for not being old and lightning res).
-- Voice of the Killer Wales is now WWWN, 100% AEWN, no research bonus, can sail. Costs 225 gold (Goetic Master, + for not being old and for water breathing.)
-- Coyote Mother's stats are unchanged, cost reduced to 150 gold (Mother of Avalon, plus for a priest level).
-- Kachina is now stealthy. Stats otherwise unchanged.
-- Toad Tribe Shaman now costs 75 gold.
-- If I can manage it, Sgaana Tyee will grant small number of units waterbreathing.
* Changes to National Summons:
-- Thunderbirds are now sacred, stealthy.
-- Frenzy of the Deeps costs only 12 gems, spell is level 3.
* General Comments (things I can't/won't do):
-- Shouldn't they have a spell that makes an Orca? Probably as a commander, maybe with death magic?

Gaea
* Misc Compliance
-- Gaea, just as a name, not so different from Pangaea. I'll use "Kishar", a sumerian equivalent. The nymphs can be renamed Asherites, and the dryads can be renamed Inanites. The ents are compliant.
-- The amount of nature needs to be reduced slightly. 6s on things is just a bit much. Single path kinda isn't viable. I'm going to reduce the nature on all the stuff by 2 and give them NESD randoms.
-- I'm going to add a bunch of vinemen and vine ogre related stuff, since that fits them into the game world as a distinct nation from Pangaea.

* Pretenders
-- World Tree is now NNE, domstr 4, and is free (as a game balance decision to encourage you to take it.)
* Starting Army
-- Starting army is now 15 sprites and 20 vinemen.
-- Starting commanders are now a nymph and a.... something other than an ancient.

-- To be continued --

[DrPraetorious]

This is a post for discussing the following mods: Padmassa, Arga Dis, Theran Empire, Sanguinia.

All of these are blood nations, several are blood/death or blood/astral or both, and that's too many, especially as four completely distinct nations. They're also all somewhat thin - several are not diverse enough to be competitive, I believe. One nation in three ages, OTOH, functions a little better, and 5/11 blood doesn't drastically increase the number of blood positions, as a fraction of the total. With this diversity of units to choose from, the positions should be tactically diverse, as well.

Thus you have EA Padmassa - The Black Coven, MA Padmassa - Horror Scourge, and LA Padmassa - Reign of the Vampiri. It's ESBD in every era, and makes sensical use of all of these units and artwork in only three slots.

The four clans from Amos' Theran empire would be retained, and the Argans would be added as an extra clan, maybe the Sanguinians are drawn from the same clan or maybe they replace one of those clans in the late era? I'll reread the flavor text and try to preserve as much of it as I can.

EA Padmassa would inherit a share of the units from every era, mostly with more primitive armor and weapons. The circle masters are experimenting with horrors and vampirism, in addition to the evil stuff I already have them doing.
MA Padmassa would get all of the Theran Empire and most of the Arga Dis units. The giant ogres from Arga Dis will be horror-infected somehow. The Argans are not physically afflicted like the other clans - the insidious influence of the horrors is what gives them their unique "personality".
LA Padmassa would get all of the Theran Empire units, most of the Sanguinia units and some of the Arga Dis units. The vampires will all be reconfigured to be conforming - only, you know, they won't suck.

To avoid confusion with the source material, I just call it Padmassa in every era. I don't care if people get my mod confused; given how long it takes me to do this I probably won't be able to maintain my version anyway.

Anyway, this seems like the best way to fit all these great units into a restricted number of slots and without including too many blood nations.

P.S. - I think that, at one point or another, that I got permission to do this from all the mod authors for this section, but I need to doublecheck before I proceed.

Also, it'd be nice if people were really, actually okay with this fusion, and not just "yeah you do what you want". I can work on this further if they feel that it doesn't do their work justice, or I don't have to include it, obviously.

[llamabeast]

The Theran Empire and Arga Dis seem to wildly different thematically to work well as one nation to me - but that's just my opinion, you might be able to pull it off.

I would say Arga Dis is probably more "complete" than the others, and has quite a different feel. Kind of more bronzy.

Maybe I'm getting thematic feel and colours confused

[Amos]

Do you feel that "Reign of the Vampiri" is thin? How so? It has full complement of units, summons and national spells. What else would you add?

The vampires will all be reconfigured to be conforming - only, you know, they won't suck.

I have made the vampire mod because I found vanilla vampires unsatisfactory. I've made them as I thought they should be. If you change them the consistency of the mod will change. Sorry, but right now my enthusiasm for this change is at "yeah you do what you want".

[Sombre]

At this point I think I'd prefer if you didn't use the name Arga Dis or the descriptions/names of the units, since the nation isn't going to be anything like the original. Do what you want with the graphics and other code though. I'll see how it all turns out in the end. Certainly sounds very different.

[DrPraetorious]

No, LA Therans are not thin; especially as it is late age. MA Therans are thin - it's not a shortage of units, spells, or schtick, but of tactical options that concerns me. Anyway, if I add stuff to the MA Therans, and then leave the LA listing alone, it won't end up making a lot of sense - the Arga Dis and Sanguinia units actually work well in this respect with relatively few changes.

On the subject of vampires: it's entirely possible to make conforming vampires that are balanced. Once both sets of vampires conform to the same standards, the Sanguinian units wouldn't be a *problem*, and I like the cavalry (which are conforming since they clearly aren't vampires per se.) I'd also like to be able to mix and match the different thralls as a game balance issue.

But that's aside from the point; if you don't want me to do all this, I'm not going to do it - and don't be shy about telling me not to do so. I like your stuff and would love to include it, but as you can see there are many more mods than there are available slots, so there's no reason for me to redact anything from people who do not like me to mess with their work. It also frees up slots so I don't have to combine mods together, whereupon the redaction becomes obviously less extreme.